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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:14 PM   #5321
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Why cannot you understand that during Euro 2012 this road will be already undergoing reconstruction?
Well the roadworks have been postponed time and time again, so it's not weird people become a little skeptic about it
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #5322
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OK, but they are not postponed without a reason. And it is not the lack of money.

Because of various environmental aspects several changes to the project were needed to be made. For the time being we are waiting untill these changes are accepted.(from 30.09.2010) This will take several months. Then second phase of the tender can be then started (estimated - February) This will take another two months or so before we get to know which company is the cheapest. (May?) Then this needs to be checked by Public Procurement Office before we can fignally sign the contract. Construction starts within a month from that date, so around June/July.

Last edited by PLH; November 10th, 2010 at 08:33 PM.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 08:58 PM   #5323
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I went to Polish infrastructure SSC forum to ask this question - but it was deleted (no idea why)

so maybe I will be more lucky with international one.

do we have / do you know a detailed plan for road infrastructure construction once we hit 2013 ?

my opinion is we do know exactly what we want to achieve by the end of 2012, but once we finish our euro 2012 schedule, there is no detail plan for further development.

could you please comment on that or rather open my eyes ?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #5324
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It would help if Warszawa would bid for the 2020 olympics
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:25 PM   #5325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
OK, but they are not postponed without a reason. And it is not the lack of money.

Because of various environmental aspects several changes to the project were needed to be made. For the time being we are waiting untill these changes are accepted.(from 30.09.2010) This will take several months. Then second phase of the tender can be then started (estimated - February) This will take another two months or so before we get to know which company is the cheapest. (May?) Then this needs to be checked by Public Procurement Office before we can fignally sign the contract. Construction starts within a month from that date, so around June/July.
I am sorry but regardless of the reason this stretch of highway is taking too long to be reconstructed. Yet environmental issues do not help either. Opposite, they make it worst as we witnessed before with construction of other highways stopped for that reason. This is a pain in the ass instead of easy problem to fix. In my opinion there is a luck of political/bureaucracy will to do this quickly and well.
No wonder why our patience is running out more and more every day.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #5326
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I did not say enivonmental issues help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
I went to Polish infrastructure SSC forum to ask this question - but it was deleted (no idea why)
Because it was in the wrong thread. Try [Polska] Drogi po 2015 roku , but first read than ask.

Quote:
euro 2012 schedule
There is NO Euro 2012 schedule. All that is build is part of EU-subsidized 2007- 2013 Operational Programme - Infrastructure and Environment.

Believe me, EU does not care about a buch of people not having anything better to do but kicking some ball.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #5327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
I did not say enivonmental issues help.




Because it was in the wrong thread. Try [Polska] Drogi po 2015 roku , but first read than ask.
.


many thanks. now I got it.

the only minor problem is you could tell me that straight away in Polish thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
There is NO Euro 2012 schedule. All that is build is part of EU-subsidized 2007- 2013 Operational Programme - Infrastructure and Environment.

Believe me, EU does not care about a buch of people not having anything better to do but kicking some ball.
OK. this is my fault. I phrased my question in the wrong way (there was no need to mention EU 2012 tournament). aaaaaah, I am poor at English.

I understand the EU-subsidized 2007- 2013 Operational Programme has got almost nothing to do with EU 2012, but ....

I am lack of information what the priorities are after 2012. I believe to get a nice piece of a new EU budget cake (2013 and upwards) we need to present our goals.

OK, I am not an expert in this field, but I think we need to do our internal homework before arriving at Brussels and presenting our next requirements/plans for EU budget commisioners.

so my question is:

does anybody know our goals (with dates) once we finalize the present EU-subsidized budget ?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #5328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
does anybody know our goals
Sure we know our goals. There is an official government statement on the long-term goal (rozporządzenie "Docelowa sieć autostrad i dróg ekspresowych"). The map of resulting A&S-roads network can be found on Wikipedia.

So there is no problem we lack long-term goals. It's the problem of money. It has always been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
(with dates)
Noone can give you any dates. If there will be money (government money, EU funds, road toll money) - something will be built. What will be built? Politicians can promise you one thing, but you shold never believe a politician...
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #5329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
the only minor problem is you could tell me that straight away in Polish thread.
It wasn't me who cut these posts out. Sorry

Quote:
OK. this is my fault. I phrased my question in the wrong way (there was no need to mention EU 2012 tournament). aaaaaah, I am poor at English.
No, your English is fine, really. The reason I reacted in such a way is that many , many people view road construction in Poland as something very much connected with Euro2012, which is in fact not.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #5330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E2rdEm View Post
Sure we know our goals. There is an official government statement on the long-term goal (rozporządzenie "Docelowa sieć autostrad i dróg ekspresowych"). The map of resulting A&S-roads network can be found on Wikipedia.

So there is no problem we lack long-term goals. It's the problem of money. It has always been.


Noone can give you any dates. If there will be money (government money, EU funds, road toll money) - something will be built. What will be built? Politicians can promise you one thing, but you shold never believe a politician...


OK.
so let me drill-in this issue (plans vs finish dates).

so how is it possible we are in possesion of the quite accurate detail plan of the road infrastructure by the end of 2012 ?
I understand the answer is: it is agreed and back-ended by EU budget. based on that we can secure the plan.

so am I right saying: we will know more once we will be in the middle of negotiations with EU commisioners for budget 2013 and upwards ? because this is some definite money we can rely on. and Polish budget for the road infrastructure will be somehow adjusted to EU-promised money.

do you guys know more/less when we would be discussing the EU budget for 2013 and upwards ? because I come into conclusion that time the detail plan would be born.

last thing:
if I am right with my logic in this post - it is hard to imagine our road insfrastructure without EU (although I was always a big supporter of joining EU)


PS. PLH: sorry for my unjustified words
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Old November 12th, 2010, 08:39 AM   #5331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
They could also reduce the road to 2 lanes during Euro 2012. A bit drastic option to improve the image. .
I'm not sure it's "drastic". As far as I know, traffic volumes on that road aren't dramatic, so it could be a sensible idea.-
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Old November 12th, 2010, 01:30 PM   #5332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
A18 Olszyna - Krzyżowa

There hasn't been much news about the renovation of this shameful road, has there?
Actually A18 won't be the biggest dissapointment during the Polish part on UEFA 2012, even if they don't manage to repair this section. Much worser is main entrance 'highway' to Warsaw (joint dk 7 and dk 8) going threw Raszyn.



Suprisingly I haven't found any photo of this section which would present it is condition and it is really hard to imagine how bad it is if someone never been to Poland. My collegaue said that he saw something similar in Luanda.

Even if a2 an part of the Warsaw bypass is finished most traffic from west, south- west will choose this route.

Our road authorities were planning a bypass of Raszyn (called s7/8) but it was blocked by some protets and postponed. Anyway I cannot understand why for such a long time nothing was done with existing road.

Last edited by Piotrek_409; November 12th, 2010 at 01:38 PM.
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Old November 12th, 2010, 01:50 PM   #5333
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Old November 12th, 2010, 02:54 PM   #5334
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Unfortunately this is how it looks like every single day. Good news is that cars from DK8 (S8) will be able to bypass all of this through DK50 (Warsaw's big ring) and A2.
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Old November 12th, 2010, 03:16 PM   #5335
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Originally Posted by Piotrek_409 View Post
Much worse [than A18] is main entrance 'highway' to Warsaw (joint dk 7 and dk 8) going threw Raszyn.

Suprisingly I haven't found any photo of this section which would present it is condition and it is really hard to imagine how bad it is if someone never been to Poland.
I drove along that section of road six weeks ago. Even on a Sunday morning, it was grievous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrek_409 View Post
I cannot understand why for such a long time nothing was done with existing road.
It's typical to deliberately leave an existing road in bad and deteriorating condition in order to boost support for building a bypass.
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Old November 12th, 2010, 03:16 PM   #5336
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Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Good news is that cars from DK8 (S8) will be able to bypass all of this through DK50 (Warsaw's big ring) and A2.
You need to build a second carriage way on this "big ring" of yours. Then it would work fine.
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Old November 12th, 2010, 03:30 PM   #5337
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Originally Posted by RipleyLV View Post
You need to build a second carriage way on this "big ring" of yours. Then it would work fine.
It serves its purpose pretty well. In 2 years it's going to be almost S grade (single carriageway of course), bypassing all towns and with limited access. To get from S8 to A2 it'll take 10 minutes of smooth drive on DK50, not so bad, is it?
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Old November 12th, 2010, 03:55 PM   #5338
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post


IMHO from driver perspective it looks much worser than on this picture. The silly commercials, ugly houses and cars parking on the mud complete the picture.

Raszyn (which the road passes threw) is in fact not so poor, however local muncipialities are not allowed to interfere in the road under GDDKiA supervision.The other roads in Raszyn look better i.e. Poniatowskiego parralel to Krakowska.(on the map below red cross indicates where the first picture was taken, while blue the other)





Last edited by Piotrek_409; November 12th, 2010 at 04:01 PM.
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Old November 12th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #5339
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Looks like in China o_0
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Old November 12th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #5340
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If "aleja" means the same as in Slovak (well we know how tricky these languages can be) I really don't understand why is it called aleja.
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Zauvik si tu, u mojim mislima i grudima..
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