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Old December 8th, 2010, 07:53 PM   #5501
bleetz
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Yes, it is generally impossible to compare these road networks. Poland is much more populous and much denser. However, I think about it this way: In order for the Lithuanian expressway and motorway network to be complete, we need to upgrade Via Baltica to 2x2 and possibly build a 2x2 road from Panevėžys to Palanga (which would kind of be a bit of a luxury). That's it, after this we won't need anything apart from a few cosmetic changes. In Poland, however, there are still places that are very remote and without decent road connections and in order to complete the network there's a need of at least twice of what has already been built.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 10:20 PM   #5502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
The 2008-2013 EU funds will not be available after 2013, so the plan is to spend them by 2013 on the projects already approved.
well that`s the problem , if government cuts projects then we can`t spend money 2008- 2013 , do you know how many miliards we have for 2008-2013 ??
I`m afraid that we need more projects to spend it ,
but maybe I`m wrong - maybe S8 Wroclaw - Lodz will help
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Old December 8th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #5503
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Originally Posted by jtybinka View Post
well that`s the problem , if government cuts projects then we can`t spend money 2008- 2013 , do you know how many miliards we have for 2008-2013 ??
I`m afraid that we need more projects to spend it ,
but maybe I`m wrong - maybe S8 Wroclaw - Lodz will help
The EU regional development funds are specific to specific projects. Member state governments cannot reassign the funds from one project to another. The projects under construction from now through 2013 correspond (perhaps with a very few exceptions) to the projects funded by the EU. To find out which projects will be built from 2013 to 2018, we'll have to wait to see which projects the EU decides to fund.

Unless the Polish government raises revenue by cutting tax rates (see the Laffer Curve if this doesn't make sense to you), there probably will not be money to fund intercity road projects not earmarked by the EU for subsidies.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 10:01 AM   #5504
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Polish roads are in perfect shape, yes they are not adequate regarding huge traffic, but quality (signage, surface) of DK roads is awesome.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 12:36 PM   #5505
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Disputable, to say the least.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:01 PM   #5506
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DK-roads:
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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:10 PM   #5507
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Like everything in life: the truth lies in the middle.

red = in bad condition
orange = in moderate condition
green = in good condition
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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:14 PM   #5508
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I wonder how the graph will look with DW-roads.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:43 PM   #5509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, I don't know about you, but in my dictionary 60% of good shape is not the exact definition of "perfect" or "awesome".

I'm not arguing that Polish roads are bad for they - in general - aren't, and I do understand the historical factors that caused this bad shape, and eventually I realise it won't change overnight. What I'm opposing here is the clear misuse of certain words which simply don't meet the reality.

Last edited by kalle_sg; December 9th, 2010 at 01:51 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #5510
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Polish roads are in perfect shape, yes they are not adequate regarding huge traffic, but quality (signage, surface) of DK roads is awesome.
When I drove across Poland from LT to CZ two months ago, Polish roads exemplified the full range from perfect to atrocious.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 02:58 PM   #5511
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Agreed. Best Polish roads are definitely extremely good, but there are still hundreds of kilometres of international transport corridors that go through really crappy roads. Like the LT border - Zambrow section (via Lomza), it is an absolute nightmare to drive there.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #5512
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Polish road are mainly in good condition, but they have inadequate standard comparing it to high traffic volumes which had raised dramatically in last decade.

Even if road have the best surface, and safety devices such us cat's eyes will not provide safeness for great volumes like grade separation, multilevel junctions, access limitation and crash barriers, so for huge traffic better and safer are highways and expressways than 1x2 national road.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 04:32 PM   #5513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Agreed. Best Polish roads are definitely extremely good, but there are still hundreds of kilometres of international transport corridors that go through really crappy roads. Like the LT border - Zambrow section (via Lomza), it is an absolute nightmare to drive there.
Having heard that the Grajewo/Lomza route is a nightmare, I drove ... Lazdijai -> Augustow -> Bialystok -> Warsaw .... In general, the Via Baltica from Helsinki to Warsaw leaves much to be desired. As slow as the northern bypass of Bialystok was (due to construction), the pain was lessened by the knowledge that the future will be better. Anyone know when the reconstruction of Bialystok's northern bypass is scheduled for completion?
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:02 PM   #5514
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To change the topic a bit...

S3 Szczecin - Gorzów is the first stretch in Poland(apart from PPP ones) to be managed by a private company.

Among other duties, the road has to be driven down every 2 hours during the day and every 4 overnight.

That's how it looks during winter:
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #5515
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In the unlikely event that Iceland's bid gets past it's politicians, it'll never get past it's people - they don't want to be poorer. As far as I'm aware, the idea of joining the Euro and the EU lasted less than a few days, with a u-turn, because it became so clear that joining the EU and Euro was the worst move available - if Iceland joins the EU, it'll quickly turn into a net receiver. The additional regulations, especially the Common Fisheries Policy will make the collapse caused by the credit crunch, which hit the country really badly, look rather small.

The only way Poland will become a net payer in the near future is if the UK leaves. A referendum, which the "out" side is sure to win, is looking likelier, but it is still a long way off, as the politicians keep backing off from it.
This is sad indeed. It is sad that you brought it here, to a forum not at all related to UK, let alone the Euro. How desperate you must be...

By the way, your funny Nigel Farage crashed in a Polish plane, because his anti-immigration banner was caught in the tail. This could be a comedy show, it's too funny for life. Earlier the same person, Nigel Farage, remember, an anti-immigration politician, was caught hiring Polish builders.

What comes next, "Nigel Farage comes out of closet choking on Polish sausage"?

Yes, such are the anti-EU forces in the UK, yet you speak of a "sure victory". Get a life, stop spamming this forum.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #5516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Lithuania definitely has a more adequate road infrastructure than Poland, no doubt about that. Poland has caught up massively recently but we are still significantly ahead overall. New Polish motorways are nicer than Lithuanian motorways, there simply aren't enough of them yet, not to mention that you have to pay for them.
Well, it's not that hard since Lithuania is like 20 times smaller? I've been there a few times, and I would say that roads are pretty average there. Pretty much the same, or even worse than in Poland imo.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:28 PM   #5517
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The UK is not poised to leave the EU. Poland led the recipients for regional development funds in the 2008-2013 EU budget. Bulgaria and Romania will lead in the 2013-2018 budget, though Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Czech Republic, and Hungary will have some urgent projects funded by the EU, particularly roads joining to other member states.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #5518
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red = in bad condition.
yellow = in moderate condition.
green = in good condition.
blue = reconstruction, repair.

Map created by people with polish skyscrapercity. Map is not perfect, national roads in most are green (good condition).


Quote:
Originally Posted by kalle_sg View Post
Well, I don't know about you, but in my dictionary 60% of good shape is not the exact definition of "perfect" or "awesome".

I'm not arguing that Polish roads are bad for they - in general - aren't, and I do understand the historical factors that caused this bad shape, and eventually I realise it won't change overnight. What I'm opposing here is the clear misuse of certain words which simply don't meet the reality.
60% means that it is decently, not awesome.
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Last edited by Superkot634; December 11th, 2010 at 09:34 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 12:09 PM   #5519
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New, revised strategy for road construction in years 2011-2015 was released today. In short: we should not expect any new contracts, most tenders already underway will probably be canceled. Except for roads already U/C, until 2013 only A1 Stryków-Tuszyn (Łódź-Piotrków Trybunalski) and S8 Wrocław-Łódź will be built. According to the document, this is how our expressway and motorway network is going to look like on 31.12.2013 (black - ready, green - U/C, white - our grandchildren will see those):


Financial crisis caught up with us.
It's really sad However What's Optymistic is that we will defenitely not stop constructing the roads being U/C. This is aproximately 1200 km. of theese roads, so it's quite a lot. Moreover we will see how the european union budget is after 2013. I hope it will enough funds to start new inwestitions like S3 from Gorzów to Sulechów or S7 to Białystok

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
be careful what you wrote. I am sure Lithuanian collegues can present statistics, where Poland looks bad in comparison with Lithuania - km motorways per capita ? I do not know, definately there are some.
I've never been to Lithuania before, however I've some friends who have been there and they told me that despite the better motorway/highway network and more bypasses, condition of rest of the roads is the same like in Poland.

Nevertheless Our national roads are in quite good condition and despite the cancellation of contracts until 2013 we are still constructing and reconstructing a lot of roads.
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Last edited by Beck's; December 10th, 2010 at 12:20 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #5520
mcarling
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This is aproximately 1200 km. of theese roads, so it's quite a lot. Moreover we will see how the european union budget is after 2013. I hope it will enough funds to start new inwestitions like S3 from Gorzów to Sulechów or S7 to Białystok
I guess the EU might fund roughly about 1000km of roads in Poland during 2013-2018. Of course, the EU will specify which roads.
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