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Old May 31st, 2011, 04:02 AM   #6141
ufonut
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A1 Sosnica - Maciejow

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Originally Posted by Kuban View Post
Jako, że na odcinku Sośnica-Maciejów wiele się dzieje i postępy w budowie widać z dnia na dzień, wrzucę "kilka" zdjęć z dzisiejszego spaceru.

1. zdjęcie z WK-463 na południe, z widokiem WD-464



2. zoom na WD 464



3. zoom



4. zoom



5. zoom



6. to już sam WK-463 od strony południowej



7. i od strony północnej



8. z tego samego miejsca, obrót w prawo



9. i w prawo na WK-462, kierunek Maciejów



10. i w prawo z widokiem na WK-462, kierunek Maciejów

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11. Dwa zdjęcia z WK-463 w kierunku Maciejowa



12.



13. i dwa z WK-462 w kierunku południowym



14.



15. i sam WK-462



16. z WK-462 w kierunku Maciejowa



17. zoom



18. zoom



19. zoom

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Old June 3rd, 2011, 03:30 PM   #6142
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I've read the Chinese want to stop building the A2 motorway. Can anyone provide some more information, I'm particularly interested in the likely delay (re-tender the project will take at least a few months I suppose).
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 04:04 PM   #6143
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Nothing is certain right now, so we'll have to wait at least a couple of days before we know what's what. This is the situation:
Chinese company (COVEC) building two sections of A2 has some financial difficulties. They've stopped paying subcontractors and asked them to stop working. Subcontractors claim they have not been getting their money in time recently (although many say they got their money quickly and without problems). Those who claim they didn't get paid are protesting on DK50. Almost all construction works have been halted. It's not a secret COVEC's offer was way below costs, so it comes as no surprise they've run out of money. If they don't resume construction within a couple of days, the contract will be terminated and nobody knows what will happen next. Today COVEC informed GDDKiA that they plan on abandoning this project, but want to talk about possibilities of solving this whole situation.

There are some talks about the possibility of finishing those sections of A2 without tender, but I'd wait with such wild speculations until it's certain COVEC is out.
BTW, COVEC is a government-owned Chinese company, so if there is some serious political pressure put on them, they'll find the money. Lets hope they do. GDDKiA claims that if they terminate the contract, contractual fines will be at least 740 mln PLN, which is like 180mln EUR.

As for the delays, it's very unlikely they would have finished in time anyway, now it's even worse. If I were to guess when will A2 be ready (ready as in: everything including grass and acoustic barriers finished), I'd say November/December 2012. Same situation with S2. But hey, miracles do happen!
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 06:17 PM   #6144
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Thanks. I assume it may be possible for GDDKiA to directly pay the subcontractors, but what is the European stance on this? Awarding projects without a tender caused severe problems in Romania with the construction of their A3, which is now a ghost of what was once called "Europe's largest construction site".

Anyway, I noticed this on DK32 in western Poland. In 2006 they've build a large bypass of Guben / Gubin, complete with a large border crossing (which was in operation for like 1 year). However, the 2010 traffic count recorded only 1.800 vehicles per day. Isn't it a bit oversized? Did they expect Gubin to become a major point of entry into Poland? I suppose it was expected to be the most important point of entry apart from the motorways (A2, A4, A6 A18).



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Old June 3rd, 2011, 11:31 PM   #6145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I noticed this on DK32 in western Poland. In 2006 they've build a large bypass of Guben / Gubin, complete with a large border crossing (which was in operation for like 1 year). However, the 2010 traffic count recorded only 1.800 vehicles per day. Isn't it a bit oversized?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like an undivided 2-lane road. If that's oversized, how would you have made it smaller?
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 11:41 PM   #6146
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It's indeed a two-lane road, but I'm surprised they build it for such low traffic volumes (1800 vehicles per day). Maybe they got tired of truck traffic blocking the city centers of Gubin and Guben. However, the new border crossing operated for only 1 year.

I've once seen vague plans to extend German A38 towards the Polish border, maybe it was somewhere in this area.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 12:00 AM   #6147
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European Union Regulation 562 of 2006 requires member states to have the capacity to reintroduce internal border controls in case of emergency.

Not having 1800 extra vehicles per day running through the town centers makes sense to me. Also, as more and more people on both sides of the border learn English, cross-border traffic will increase.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 12:46 AM   #6148
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Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa in Zabrze will open on June 10th, 2011:

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Originally Posted by esce View Post
Witam,

wprawdzie nie robiłem zbyt wielu fotorelacji na obecnie budowanym odcinku DTŚ (gpj70 tak dobrze sobie radził, że nie było potrzeby), ale teraz chciałem na sam koniec dać kilka swoich zdjęć, jako swojego rodzaju "pożegnanie" budowy, a zarazem powitanie nowego odcinka (niebawem) w ruchu Zapraszam do obejrzenia kilku dzisiejszych wieczornych zdjęć zrobionych na najbardziej wschodnim z zabrzańskich węzłów.

1.


2.


3.


4.


5.


6.


7.


8.


9.


10.


Pięknie to wszystko wygląda. Niebawem przybędzie nam kolejna świetna droga. Aż człowieka wzruszenie ogarnia - tak ten czas leci. Dopiero co otwarto rudzki odcinek, a tutaj już czeka w kolejce zabrzański Pozostaje tylko czekać na ciąg dalszy budowy - zarówno na zachód jak i wschód...

Dobranoc.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 02:31 PM   #6149
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DK43 Wielun - Czestochowa:

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W magazynie Drogowiec z 5 marca 1939 r roku jej szlakiem wyznaczono planowaną autostradę której nigdy jednak nie zrealizowano
According to the Polish wikipedia, the route of DK43 between Wielun and Czestochowa was once planned as an autostrada. Did they actually start construction on this section? I've read portions of DK43 were narrowed from 11 to 8 meters between 2006 and 2008, maybe that was the precursor of the autostrada?

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Old June 4th, 2011, 03:27 PM   #6150
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That was before WWII so I doubt. Our borders change dramaticly, comunism came, and all plans was changed (in fact there was no plans after war). Actually thats the reason that we have so few motorways.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #6151
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I noticed DK43 is far more straight than usual in Poland, especially for a higher DK-number. However, DK17 is also very straight from Warszawa to Lublin.

Different issue: Do you think it is possible for A2 to be completed before Euro 2012 using 3 shifts a day, working 24 hours a day, and working during the winter months in heated tents? The construction costs will rise that way, but you can work much faster. I don't know what the current work-regime is for A2.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #6152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Different issue: Do you think it is possible for A2 to be completed before Euro 2012 using 3 shifts a day, working 24 hours a day, and working during the winter months in heated tents? The construction costs will rise that way, but you can work much faster. I don't know what the current work-regime is for A2.
Honestly I think nothing is impossible, if there was an unlimited supply of money, machines, materials and people, they could theoretically even finish it this year. On most road constructions (unless there are some terribly unstable grounds), the thing that takes the most time to finish are the largest bridges, they are on the critical patch of the project. A classic beam bridge the size of those on A2 could theoretically be built in around 6-7 months from start to finish. But when a contract consists of 20 or more bridges, this means you'd need a crew for each one, while usually you have 2-3 bridge crews for the whole motorway section (not to mention cranes, concrete-pouring equipment etc.). So to answer your question - if you want to spend a lot of money, you can work a lot faster and have motorways finished quicker. But I don't think that's such a good idea - I'd rather get 1500km in 4 years, than 500km in 2 years, for the same money. Also, I'd much rather have the whole A2 Stryków-Konotopa delayed by a few months, than to have it built in time, but at a price of lower quality. It's not the end of the world if they don't finish it by May 2012.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 06:11 PM   #6153
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It's not the end of the world if they don't finish it by May 2012.
I agree. It spun out of control into some kind of prestige project.

What I don't understand is why they waited so long for the planning and tendering process, leaving absolutely no spare time for errors or delays. If the whole process started a year earlier it could've been completed on time without any problems.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #6154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What I don't understand is why they waited so long for the planning and tendering process, leaving absolutely no spare time for errors or delays. If the whole process started a year earlier it could've been completed on time without any problems.
Well, actually preparations and tendering process was extremely quick in case of A2 Stryków-Konotopa. The reason it all started so late was that there was a plan to build this section in Private-Public Partnership. But unfortunately, due to financial crisis, the negotiations failed, it was announced in late February 2009. The tender was issued on March 27th, and the contracts were signed on September 28th, so the whole process took 185 days, which is very quick for our standards.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #6155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Different issue: Do you think it is possible for A2 to be completed before Euro 2012 using 3 shifts a day, working 24 hours a day, and working during the winter months in heated tents? The construction costs will rise that way, but you can work much faster. I don't know what the current work-regime is for A2.
Everything is possibile if you pay for it accordingly. Environmental Impact Decision allows to work only from 6:00 do 22:00 near housing areas.
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Old June 5th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #6156
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What about plans to build hard shoulders on A4 between Krzyzowa and Wroclaw?
Most bridges are already new and wide enough. But motorway itself has only two lanes without hard shoulders.

By the way, about A18:
Second option despite 2+1 on northern lane would be a temporary asphalt surface onto old concrete surface.
That has be done on a section about 5-10 km and it is much more comfortable to drive than other sections of A18.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 01:08 PM   #6157
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Question: is there a list or overview available of planned Class GP roads in the Silesia metropolitan area? So far I only know of Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa, but I assume there is much more planned (like in Warszawa).
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Old June 7th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #6158
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So, after 80 replies in one day in the Polish [A2] Stryków (bez węzła) - Konotopa thread, can anyone give a brief overview about what happened today with GDDKiA, COVEC, etc?
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Old June 7th, 2011, 09:46 PM   #6159
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Basically still nothing.
GDDKIA wants COVEC to present them with a plan of what they're going to do now to ensure the completion of the construction on time. COVEC says that they are ready to resign from the contract(/or already have resigned, hard to tell) but still want to talk about what can be done to save the construction (smth about money....). GDDKIA set a deadline, I believe it's a week from last friday, and then they'll terminate the contract, unless a solution is found. Nothing changed in that matter today, except for GDDKIA saying that they are going to finish building the motorway on time either with COVEC, or using an alternative "plan B". Of course no one knows what plan B is, but there are speculations which i'm not going to go into. Basically the media are panicking, so are the politicians, but GDDKIA and the ministry of infrastructure keep saying that it is still possible to finish everything on time.
A meeting is planned between GDDKIA and COVEC on thursday.
That about sums it up. It's quite hard to make out the truth in all this, so the best thing is to wait till thursday.

edit:
i just remembered some more details. COVEC is complaing that the investor (GDDKIA) isn't flexible and doesn't want to renegotiate the terms of the contract at all. They say they already invested 100 mln dollars of their own money into the construction. They also accuse GDDKIA of always paying them on the last day of the payment period (after 58 days), and of being paid for less than they actually completed. They also say that they have a problem with a sudden rise in building material prices. All of this makes them want to renegotiate the contract.
GDDKIA says that renegotiation is out of question. The minister of foreign relations contacted chinese ministers to talk about the problems. The prime minister is going to talk to GDDKIA and the minister of infrastructure about resolving the situation as quick as possible.

This is a big media mess, rumours everywhere, no facts.

Last edited by jeremiash; June 7th, 2011 at 10:00 PM.
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Old June 7th, 2011, 09:47 PM   #6160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So, after 80 replies in one day in the Polish [A2] Stryków (bez węzła) - Konotopa thread, can anyone give a brief overview about what happened today with GDDKiA, COVEC, etc?
Nothing much really, COVEC gave notice, yet claim they are "willing to negotiate". Polish thread had to be closed because out of nowhere came dozens of experts on building motorways without tender and avoiding the law and whatnot, which leads to non-constructive discussions and personal attacks.
We're just going to have to stay put a few more days.
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