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Old July 28th, 2011, 11:09 PM   #6421
toonczyk
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Yeah. In other news - contracts to continue building ex-Chinese sections of A2 are signed (or at least one is and another one will be signed tomorrow). It'll be ready in mid October 2012, but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 08:44 AM   #6422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
... but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.
and that is a catch.

I am afraid our politicians will do thier best to have it "drivable" mid-May 2012. and I do not want that, 'cause I am afraid we will loose the quality "on the way" in order to achieve a sick goal. some things (like motorway constructions) require some time and we must not change it. I do not want it see A2 rehabilitated in 2014.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 10:41 AM   #6423
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I don't care at all about Euro2012. Of course, sooner is better than later, but I would prefer to see the work done well.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #6424
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First we have general election in Oktober 2011. So the official news now is the motorway will be "drivable" for EURO2012. It must be.
But who knows, maybe it is really possible. I mean we still have 10 months time. (minus wintertime)

At the end it's a good news the works will be continued.

Last edited by bebe.2006; July 29th, 2011 at 12:29 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 11:30 AM   #6425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Yeah. In other news - contracts to continue building ex-Chinese sections of A2 are signed (or at least one is and another one will be signed tomorrow). It'll be ready in mid October 2012, but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.
So did they do a full public tender procedure, or did they do it quick without a full tender procedure?
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Old July 29th, 2011, 11:34 AM   #6426
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Quote:
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So did they do a full public tender procedure, or did they do it quick without a full tender procedure?
It was a quick agreement contract procedure.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #6427
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And while I still think it's illegal, it's actually probably going to stick. Nobody protested it, except for COVEC. And we already know their lawyers are useless - they've proven it again, because their protest was not even taken under consideration for formal reasons.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #6428
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Well, formally - yes, they abused the non-bidding method. But GDDKiA did inquire several companies for their prices, so there was some informal bidding process. They chose those companies who were a) willing to promise "drivability" in may, b) offering the lowest price. After all, the new prices are quite low, comparing to COVEC's demands[*] and the original prices from the tender two years ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastex View Post
A2 odc. A
COVEC...................................754 588 186,71
HERMANN KIRCHNER POLSKA Sp. z.o.o.......990 862 462,33
MOSTOSTAL WARSZAWA SA -....... 1 082 639 042,73
MOSTY ŁÓDŹ............................. 1 094 795 200,78
BUDIMEX - DROMEX....................... 1 097 847 256,00
Autostrada Wschodnia Sp. z.o.o..........1 354 434 243,66
NDI SA (fuj!) -............................. 1 142 096 900,00
MOTA ENGIL............................. 1 187 089 123,60
current price: ~989 000 000
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Originally Posted by bastex View Post
A2: odc. C
COVEC..................................................................................534 548 523,13
PBG S.A., ..............................................................................657 214 000,00
Mostostal Warszawa S.A., ul. Konstruktorska 11A, 02-673..........709 993 276,85
Johann BUNTE Bauunternehmung GmbH & Co. KG.......................729 207 670,31
MOTA-ENGIL Polska S.A., ul. Wadowicka 8W, 30-415 Kraków..........732 100 964,05
Budimex Dromex S.A., ul. Stawki 40, 01-040 Warszawa, Polska......742 955 600,00
NDI SA, ul. Powstańców Warszawy 19, 81-718 Sopot.................878 496 380,00
Bilfinger Berger Polska SA.......................................881 869 003,02
current price: 756 050 000 PLN
[*] It is is said that COVEC demanded additional 1 bln PLN to finish the initial contract of 1,3 bln PLN.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 01:23 PM   #6429
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Can you compare those prices? I mean, COVEC already constructed some, so they don't have to build from scratch.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 02:27 PM   #6430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E2rdEm View Post
... After all, the new prices are quite low, comparing to COVEC's
The key is that construction of those two sections of A2 is, in some extent, advanced. COVEC has already done some works there.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 02:44 PM   #6431
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Quote:
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COVEC has already done some works there.
About 15-20%. I think their biggest input was actually drawing up the construction project and obtaining construction permit.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 07:56 PM   #6432
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A8 in Wrocław


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S69 and and beautiful views.

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Fotorelacja z odcinka S69 Milówka - granica państwa

Data wykonania zdjęć : 2011 06 24


Północny wlot do tunelu


Jedziemy w stronę granicy


W Zwardoniu tablica prędkości zaktualizowana


Wracamy w stronę B-B. Węzeł Szare














i wiadukt w Milówce


Lubię jeździć tą drogą
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Old July 30th, 2011, 12:10 AM   #6433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Well, sorry for not being precise enough. There are some rumors that this section of A2 will be finished (if COVEC indeed abandon the construction site) without construction bidding. This is not allowed by our law, except in "extraordinary circumstances". Those extraordinary circumstances are supposed to mean for example repairing a bridge destroyed by some natural disaster etc. - things that have to be done quick, otherwise public interest is seriously endangered. The situation right now is - in my opinion - absolutely not extraordinary, so it would be illegal for the investor to continue the construction by private contract, without the tender process. Yet lots of people claiming otherwise (I called them experts ironically) flooded the A2 thread with, well, nonsense and personal attacks. Probably this is not the place to talk about it, but I'm just trying to convey how dense the atmosphere here is
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Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Yeah. In other news - contracts to continue building ex-Chinese sections of A2 are signed (or at least one is and another one will be signed tomorrow). It'll be ready in mid October 2012, but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 12:14 AM   #6434
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I stand by my claim it's against the law. I'm pretty sure it would not hold up in court, but then again - we're most likely not going to find out.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 12:52 AM   #6435
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It's no the first time things are being done this way. Hopefully one of the last.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 08:44 AM   #6436
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I have said that already in the A2 thread: the GDDKiA have done great job
1. They had no choice but to accept Chinese companies to the tender.
2. Once COVEC failed, they've fired them WITHOUT killing half of the other contracts in Poland. Imagine what would have happened if they had adjusted the prices.
3. They managed to keep the construction companies in curbs in the follow-up quasi-tender and avoid the protests, even if the procedure is not legally obvious.

That's what I think we should call Good Management, right ?

Public tender procedures are against common sense. You don't buy cheap, you don't buy high quality, and you don't buy FAST. What you DO buy - is something that matches tender specs. And that's something different, isn't it ?

This highway is probably the most needed road in Poland now, I don't mind that somebody was smart enough to minimize the time loss. Even if they don't make it for may 2012, the finish will be much faster than in the traditional tender that most of you here praise. This means LOT of money saved, and a few lives too...

Please remember that. Even if we all know it's all about the elections.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 11:45 PM   #6437
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I've read the record of decision (DSU) of the S19 western bypass of Lublin has been annulled by a regional court. Does anyone know on what grounds?
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Old July 31st, 2011, 07:32 PM   #6438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've read the record of decision (DSU) of the S19 western bypass of Lublin has been annulled by a regional court. Does anyone know on what grounds?
The local NIMBY group has been successful in the regional administrative court. This type of court does not decide whether the road was well planned, but whether the administrative proceeding was conducted in accordance with the law (whether the paperwork is ok).

By the way, to show colleagues from abroad how difficult it is to determine new road corridors, I would like to present a new map of the Warsaw metropolitan transport. One layer contains all the areas of Natura 2000 in Mazovia. Turn on it and a layer of national roads and understand what is our problem.
The link: http://mapa.siskom.waw.pl/
Legend is in polish, but google translate should be fine for that.
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Old July 31st, 2011, 10:16 PM   #6439
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S8 Construction

Today I drove from Warsaw to Bialystok.

There was evidence of work at each end of the Zambrow bypass. On the Warsaw side, the foundations for the piers that will support the overpass are done. On the Bialystok side, the piers are in place (but no spans yet) and the asphalt is mostly in place between the future overpass and where it will join the road to Bialystok. I didn't see the any of the bypass other than the endpoints, so I cannot comment on the general progress.

From Jezewo Stare to Bialystok, the new overpasses are in various stages of completion and most of the asphalt has been laid. Traffic was routed back and forth among the old road and each the two new carriageways. It is clear from the signage that the route for public traffic shifts frequently as the works progress. As of today, both directions of traffic were routed adjacent to each other. It looks like the two directions of traffic may soon be routed on different carriageways, at least from time to time and along some stretches. It looks to me like this section will be completed on time in August 2012 if not before.

The last time I drove this way was the end of September 2010 and the progress is dramatic. At that time, there minimal evidence of early preparations.
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Old July 31st, 2011, 11:43 PM   #6440
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Augustow - Druskininkai

Why don't Poland and Lithuania build a new 2x1 road directly between Augustow and Druskininkai? It would reduce the current driving distance by about 40 km.
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