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Old July 31st, 2011, 11:51 PM   #6441
Sasza
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And why Poland and Lithuania should? Current DK8 is Lithuanian's main transport corridor, they modernized (I mean, Lithuanians) road on their side. Current DK16 between Augustów to Lithuanian border is road in the middle of one of the biggest polish forests and after crossing the PL-LT border it becomes a second road with almost no traffic. So there is no need. And no possibility.
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Old August 1st, 2011, 03:14 AM   #6442
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A2 Łódź-Warsaw

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Can you compare those prices? I mean, COVEC already constructed some, so they don't have to build from scratch.
A jornalist counted the money for us:

Source: http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,101562,...wie_firmy.html
Quote:
Road Directorate has already paid COVEC about 125 million zł for work done on the A2 and is currently about to pay 50 million zł to settle accounts for a consortium of Chinese subcontractors. Now to finish the work by the new contractors GDDKiA will pay 1 billion 745 million zł more, so the construction of 50 km A2 will consume at least 1 billion 920 million zł - about half more than the road management has planned two years ago.

In June GDDKIA announced that it demands 130 mln zł of penalties from a Chinese consortium.[...]
Moreover, GDDKiA threatened COVEC with some 700 milion in civil liabilities (on grounds of lost income, delays etc.) - but that is just a bluff IMHO. Even those 130 milion is not easy - it will take several years in court to get it.

So, for now we must assume that the total cost of that part of A2 is 1.920 mln PLN. It's ~39 mln per kilometer. Below average of 2010's tenders:
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Originally Posted by Maya83 View Post
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Old August 1st, 2011, 09:21 AM   #6443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasza View Post
And why Poland and Lithuania should? Current DK8 is Lithuanian's main transport corridor, they modernized (I mean, Lithuanians) road on their side. Current DK16 between Augustów to Lithuanian border is road in the middle of one of the biggest polish forests and after crossing the PL-LT border it becomes a second road with almost no traffic. So there is no need. And no possibility.
The main road between Vilnius and Poland goes through Grodno in the northwestern corner of Belarus. I'm suggesting a bypass around Belarus. It would involve about 50 kilometers of road, mostly on the Lithuanian side, some of which already exists (probably unpaved). I'm not suggesting an expressway, just a 2x1 road. 50 kilometers of road to reduce a trip between capital cities by 40 kilometers does not seem unreasonable to me. I realize that only travelers between Poland and Vilnius (plus some small towns) would benefit, as traffic to Kaunas, Riga, Tallinn, etc. take a different road (Via Baltica).
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Old August 1st, 2011, 06:53 PM   #6444
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Impossible. It WAS a main road for so many years but after IIWW it's not. Traffic to Wilno(Vilnius) it's not so important as traffic to Kowno(Kaunas) and Kłajpeda.
And about this "bypass". Man, look even at the google maps, the whole area is on of the biggest European forests with many, many lakes and almost no inhabitants. Poland and Lithuania, even together doesn't have enough money to just throw away them to transit road which would be empty.
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Old August 1st, 2011, 11:28 PM   #6445
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I see your point. Having thought about it some more, I think it would be better for the Lithuanians to build a 2x1 road from Veisiejai to the border near Ogrodniki. That's mostly farmland, not forrest. It would also be only about 13 or so kilometers on the Lithuanian side and perhaps up to about 3 kilometers on the Polish side depending on exactly where the road would cross the border. Between Ogrodniki and Holny Wolmera would probably be idea. Even if the current DK16 border crossing were to be used, it would cut 10-15 kilometers off the Vilno - Poland travel distance.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 07:28 PM   #6446
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Poland and Lithuania could not assemble a tent together, let alone create a new road project and implement it. Cooperation and coordination between the two countries in road/rail construction has been absolutely pathetic so far and I don't see it changing any time soon. We will be stuck with crap roads between PL and LT for a long time to come, I have very little doubts about that.

As for that project that mcarling proposed, I have proposed it myself in ************ sometime ago. The current A4 should go to Sejny and not Gardin. Here's my map:



I do realise that there's a lot of green stuff in the way and that it is probably impossible to build though. It is a shame, because I believe that this road would be useful and the traffic levels would be far from low.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 08:15 PM   #6447
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Eh, but the point is, that DK16 is, something I call "forest road". It's not importat for us, there is low amount of inhabitants, a lot of forests, lakes etc, etc. DK8 is now main road and it will be.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 10:03 PM   #6448
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My point is that the forest road should still be connected to the Lithuanian A4, so that the Lithuanian A4 would be Vilnius - Sejny and not Vilnius - Gardin. I am not proposing an S road there, but there would be enough traffic for a simple 1x2 road, and the length of the new road required for such connection would only be 20km. (10 km. in each country, plus ~30 km. of relatively minor upgrades of existing roads), so there are few reasons (all environmental) not to do it. The A4 in Lithuania is a good road, if this connection was built, most people would go to Poland (from Vilnius) via the new A4.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 11:41 PM   #6449
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I like bleetz's proposal (above). There is little forrest along his proposed route.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 11:48 PM   #6450
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Still, a forest does not mean you cannot do any construction there. However, today's environmentalists make little difference between Natura 2000, forests, or just farmland when it comes to motorways...
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 04:57 AM   #6451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasza View Post
Eh, but the point is, that DK16 is, something I call "forest road". It's not importat for us, there is low amount of inhabitants, a lot of forests, lakes etc, etc. DK8 is now main road and it will be.
BTW, DK8 will not be the main road to LT. The main road will be S61 (in about 254 years). The only section of DK/S8 that will be used for LT is Warsaw - Zambrow.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:07 PM   #6452
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New part of S7 (Gdańsk -Warsaw) near Elblag was opened today.





legend:
red - in use
green - just opened
blue U/C
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:22 PM   #6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
BTW, DK8 will not be the main road to LT. The main road will be S61 (in about 254 years).
Despite the much greater distance this route might become the best way to get between Vilno and Poland, via Kaunas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
The only section of DK/S8 that will be used for LT is Warsaw - Zambrow.
I believe the S61 will not go to Zambrow, but rather is planned to go via Lomza to Ostrów Mazowiecka.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:36 PM   #6454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delfin_pl View Post
New part of S7 (Gdańsk -Warsaw) near Elblag was opened today.
Wasn't it opened on July 28th?
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:40 PM   #6455
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It was, but they just wrote an article about it on the local website today, that's where the map came from, so delfin_pl must not have noticed that it already opened a couple days back
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:41 PM   #6456
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article is from today

http://www.trojmiasto.pl/wiadomosci/...ry-n50265.html
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:48 PM   #6457
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http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/965...lblag---paslek
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:50 PM   #6458
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the article is from today but where in the article does it say that the ROAD was opened TODAY? http://gddkia.gov.pl/article/9656/28...lblag---paslek
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:51 PM   #6459
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Right I've missed this opening, sorry.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 11:30 PM   #6460
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A2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carte View Post
Nowe zdjęcia lotnicze ze strony autostrada-a2.pl, wykonane 13 lipca:
Widok na węzeł Głuchowo

Widok na SPO na Węźle Jordanowo

Widok na OUA Biały Mur w budowie

Widok na jedno z przejść dla zwierząt

Widok na fragment autostrady w budowie

Widok na budowę MOP-ów Gnilec i Sosna

Wiadukt drogowy nad autostradą w ok. Łagowa

Wiadukt autostradowy nad gruntami słabonośnymi w ok. Jordanowa

Wiadukt autostradowy nad DK Nr 2

White topping w ok. Rzepina
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Układanie nawierzchni betonowej Jordanowo - Łagów

Przejście dla zwierząt

PPO Tarnawa w budowie

OUA Ilanka i węzeł Torzym

Most autostradowy nad rz.Obrą

MOP-y Gnilec i Sosna

Górne przejście dla zwierząt

Fragment węzła Głuchowo w budowie

Fragment odcinka Nowy Tomyśl - Trzciel

Ekrany akustyczne w budowie

Dolne przejście dla zwierzą

Budowa ekranów akustycznych

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