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Old October 12th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #6881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmieciu View Post
Here you have great map in flash, History of the construction of expressways and highways in Poland.
This map in flash shows a huge slowdown in motorway construction after 2012. 2012 will definitely be the year in which the most new motorways be opened however, things for 2012/2013/2014/2015 are looking bad (construction wise)

They say that the next portion of EU Grants Poland will get from the central EU budget (for the years 2014-2020) will mostly be injected into railway infrastructure, but I hope that they don't forget about the importance of roads and motorways.

Perhaps new tenders will be announced and this map will be more 'red' for the years after 2012.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 06:58 PM   #6882
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Pretty much correct. DSU is very important and if I am not mistaken it expires in 4 years so there will be movement before its expiration for sure.
Doesn't that just mean that construction needs to begin before the expiration of the DSU? In other words, once construction has begun, expiration of the DSU doesn't matter, right?

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Key thing to remember is EU's budget for infrastructure for 2013-2020. If it meets or exceeds what we got last time there should be funds allocated for this particular expressway.
So far, there is no sign of any sort of budgetary discipline at the EU, despite varying levels of austerity in the budgets of some member states.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #6883
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A2 by Rusonaldo
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@ polkagris

Ruch będzie puszczony1 grudnia a nie 1 listopada więc nie ma szans na przejechanie się po A2 nawet po poboczu.

Kilka szybkich strzałów

Węzeł Trzciel





SPO Trzciel













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Old October 12th, 2011, 10:53 PM   #6884
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Media says, that Warsaw become one of most attractive city to foreign investors. I think, that fact, that in next year this city will has complete motorway connection (via A2) to western Europe and S2, S8 bypass has impact to it. Additionally factors are resistance Poland to financial crisis, building second line of metro and Euro 2012 organization.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #6885
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This map in flash shows a huge slowdown in motorway construction after 2012. 2012 will definitely be the year in which the most new motorways be opened however, things for 2012/2013/2014/2015 are looking bad (construction wise)
It includes only already contracted sections, that's why it looks so bad.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 11:14 PM   #6886
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Of course, this map contains only contracted sections, but polish government don't plans building roads after 2012 to large scale such as building now. Despide I hope, that this map will expand for some additionally sections under construction
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Old October 12th, 2011, 11:41 PM   #6887
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Almost no country in Europe has ever achieved the pace of construction like in Poland these years. Only Germany managed to build 3.000 kilometers in 4 years time before World War II.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 11:41 PM   #6888
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Oh it will expand. For example S8 Syców-Łódź (more than 100km) will be build for sure, but not contracted yet, so not in a map.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 01:25 AM   #6889
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I don't know, while the present pace of construction is certainly worthy of praise, I'm not that impressed by the overall situation motorway-wise in Poland, even as it will look like by 2015, especially if we compare it to the countries of former Yugoslavia, which have been through civil wars, economic sanctions and various other sorts of internal strife.

Current motorway map of ex-Yugoslavia (white - built, red - U/C; yellow - planned motorways)
Already about ~3,000km of motorways, and by 2015, its likely another 1,000km will be built.

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Old October 13th, 2011, 01:44 AM   #6890
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Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
I don't know, while the present pace of construction is certainly worthy of praise, I'm not that impressed by the overall situation motorway-wise in Poland, even as it will look like by 2015, especially if we compare it to the countries of former Yugoslavia, which have been through civil wars, economic sanctions and various other sorts of internal strife.
I think we all agree that we have wasted a lot of time after 1989 with very little happening in terms of new infrastructure (that includes railways as well). Those mistakes are not easy to recover from, but in the last couple of years we've made a huge progress. By the end of 2015 we should have 3100-3300km of motorways and dual-carriageway expressways and I think that's not bad at all, it was one fourth of that just five years ago.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 02:24 AM   #6891
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All that bullshitting about the budgetary prospective... It's just about the politics. The government does not know what will happen and does not promise anything. It's much easier to announce "wow, we have funds and we can build extra 1250 km of roads", than to say "oops, sorry, we planned 5000 km and can only build 50".
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Old October 13th, 2011, 02:46 AM   #6892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
I don't know, while the present pace of construction is certainly worthy of praise, I'm not that impressed by the overall situation motorway-wise in Poland, even as it will look like by 2015, especially if we compare it to the countries of former Yugoslavia, which have been through civil wars, economic sanctions and various other sorts of internal strife.
Tough Words, but true. We screw badly with motorways after fall of communism. But on the other hand, Yugoslavia will gonna have more than 3000 km in 2015, we will too. Area of former Yugoslavia was about 250 000km, Poland 310 000km. So it's comparable. And since we start some serious work after 2005, i'm think it's quite nice.

Too bad there are no indications that this, very good, pace will last.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 03:34 AM   #6893
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Originally Posted by kooba View Post
Tough Words, but true. We screw badly with motorways after fall of communism. But on the other hand, Yugoslavia will gonna have more than 3000 km in 2015, we will too. Area of former Yugoslavia was about 250 000km, Poland 310 000km. So it's comparable. And since we start some serious work after 2005, i'm think it's quite nice.

Too bad there are no indications that this, very good, pace will last.
Wasn't Poland in a worse shape than Yugoslavia though (before the wars there)? Yugoslavia was relatively prosperous by Eastern European standards and I think they built quite a few motorways even in socialist times.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 03:39 AM   #6894
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The Brotherhood and Unity Highway stretched over 1,180 km (730 mi) across former Yugoslavia, from the Austrian border at Rateče near Kranjska Gora in the northwest via Ljubljana, Zagreb, Belgrade and Skopje to Gevgelija on the Greek border in the southeast. It was coloquially named autoput or autocesta (generic Serbo-Croatian expressions for "highway", "motorway"), as it was the one and only modern highway in the country, connecting four constituent states. This use is gradually fading out after the successor states have built further motorways.

...The situation slightly improved after some parts were brought up to modern motorway standards (two lanes for each direction plus an emergency lane) on sections Kranj-Ljubljana (20 km), Zagreb-Slavonski Brod-Županja (259 km) and Sremska Mitrovica-Belgrade-Niš (277 km) from 1977 on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother..._Unity_Highway

and others like Zagreb-Rijeka for example:

1970's

Last edited by lukaszek89; October 13th, 2011 at 04:10 AM.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 04:54 AM   #6895
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Wasn't Poland in a worse shape than Yugoslavia though (before the wars there)?
Yes, that is very true. In 1988, Yugoslavia was in much better economic condition than Poland, but I think the wars probably reversed that by 1995, so I don't think we can take much out of a comparison with Yugoslavia. I do agree with the opinion that the early post-occupation Polish governments squandered their opportunities. Poland may now have the healthiest political situation in the EU.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 09:33 AM   #6896
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Area of former Yugoslavia was about 250 000km, Poland 310 000km. So it's comparable.
Mate, look at the terrain characteristics in ex-Yugoslavia. I think, Croatia and Slovenia did amazing job.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 10:19 AM   #6897
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Of course Croatia has made excellent job as it comes to its highway network but any comparisons can't be taken out of the economical context. For Croatia investing in modern highways was a crucial to benefit from tourism what is the most important branch of Croatian economy. As it comes for Poland there was completely another situation. We had a quite developed network of roads which were sufficient till 2000 year.

The number of registered passenger cars in Poland:

1990 - 5.261.000
2000 - 9.991.000
2010 -17.240.000

The total number of all registered vehicles in Poland for 2010 is more than 21. millions. It's still less than in Western EU countries according to comparable values (number of inhabitants, total length of roads etc.).
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Old October 13th, 2011, 10:40 AM   #6898
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Quote:
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Mate, look at the terrain characteristics in ex-Yugoslavia. I think, Croatia and Slovenia did amazing job.
Yugoslavia built almost nothing in mountainous areas. All mountainous motorways in Slovenia weren't built until the 1990's and early 2000's in Croatia. Montenegro, southwestern Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, all places without a motorway network. Only BIH built some short motorways recently but it's by far not a network.


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The total number of all registered vehicles in Poland for 2010 is more than 21. millions. It's still less than in Western EU countries according to comparable values (number of inhabitants, total length of roads etc.).
The per capita car ownership in Poland is currently already comparable to the Netherlands and has already exceeded the United Kingdom, Ireland and Denmark. If current trends continue Poland will also pass Sweden, Lithuania, Spain and Belgium in terms of car ownership within a few years.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 10:42 AM   #6899
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Switek, you're right, but you also have to admit that in the 90's our goverment should expect increasing number of registered vechicles and overall traffic and do something to prepare our country to that. Yes, tourism needs good roads, but the other types of economy, especially expansive economy, need it too.

PS. My English sucks, so, sorry if I made any mistakes.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #6900
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Oh, come on, don't go that path... Success of others don't prohibit us from celebrating our evident successess in next couple of months. I believe ex-Yugoslavia motorways appreciation thread is somewhere else
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