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Old October 14th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #6921
toonczyk
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A set of more recent and much more detailed (when you zoom in you can see helmets of construction workers on S2 ) aerial photos of Warsaw can be found on zumi.pl:
http://www.zumi.pl/,warszawa,Szukaj,...,namapie.html?
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Old October 14th, 2011, 04:07 PM   #6922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwojcie View Post
Oh, come on, don't go that path... Success of others don't prohibit us from celebrating our evident successess in next couple of months. I believe ex-Yugoslavia motorways appreciation thread is somewhere else
Apropriate, bold and wise words!
I think that you Polish people should be proud on your recent motorway network.
(Especially when some people from eastern parts of former Yugoslavia try to deceive all of us by taking Slovenian and Croatian successes as theirs.)
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Old October 14th, 2011, 07:47 PM   #6923
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I worked out some statistics about traffic safety in Poland. Usually they only give the absolute number of people killed, but it's more interesting to blend this with the amount of vehicle-kilometers. I got the statistics from the transportation Yearbook 2005 - 2009.1 The years 2006, 2007 and 2010 are an interpolation.

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Old October 14th, 2011, 08:04 PM   #6924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As long as it doesn't cause significant additional cost or lengthy construction times I don't mind, in fact I would applaud it.
Mszana is great example how such projects can go wrong.
Each such signature structure must cost much more to design in the first place. Then most contractors factor "risk costs" into the tender price as well. And still something can go wrong.
I can see point for some of those spectaculars structures if there are somewhere in cities. But junction in the countryside?
We are too poor country for that. And in dear need for thousand of km of new roads. Why waste money for fancy projects?
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Old October 14th, 2011, 08:28 PM   #6925
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A1 has been opened !
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Old October 14th, 2011, 08:37 PM   #6926
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A1 has been opened !
Which stretch(es)?
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Old October 14th, 2011, 08:47 PM   #6927
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Toruń - Grudziądz, see previous page.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #6928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
A1 has been opened ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
Toruń - Grudziądz.
Another 62 kilometers! Excellent!
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Old October 14th, 2011, 09:09 PM   #6929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I worked out some statistics about traffic safety in Poland.
Unfortunately it looks like this year there are going to be some 10-15% more fatalities (mostly due to rather snowless first months of this year - no snow means people drive faster and accidents are more severe). But we'll see.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #6930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Unfortunately it looks like this year there are going to be some 10-15% more fatalities (mostly due to rather snowless first months of this year - no snow means people drive faster and accidents are more severe). But we'll see.
The Polish rate is still 3.5 times worse than the Dutch one. Though I don't believe the Netherlands is a good comparison. 50% of all vehicle kilometers are driven on motorways - the safest road type - while this is likely much lower in Poland, maybe less than 10% even.

You'll see there will be a huge reduction after most long-distance routes have been replaced by motorways. Two-lane roads with medium to high traffic volumes which serve long-distance traffic are the most dangerous ones, people get tired or drive reckless on these roads and head-on collisions will occur much more frequently on this type of roads.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 09:33 PM   #6931
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http://torun.gazeta.pl/torun/1,79568...nad_morze.html
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Old October 14th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #6932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Polish rate is still 3.5 times worse than the Dutch one. Though I don't believe the Netherlands is a good comparison. 50% of all vehicle kilometers are driven on motorways - the safest road type - while this is likely much lower in Poland, maybe less than 10% even.

You'll see there will be a huge reduction after most long-distance routes have been replaced by motorways. Two-lane roads with medium to high traffic volumes which serve long-distance traffic are the most dangerous ones, people get tired or drive reckless on these roads and head-on collisions will occur much more frequently on this type of roads.
Absolutely. Another factor are vehicles in use - we still have loads of old cars on our roads and obviously those EuroNCAP stars really do matter when an accident occurs. But the biggest problem is still attitude of drivers - no regard for pedestrians, unsafe overtaking, alcohol...

I think it's possible to achieve something like 2800-3000 traffic fatalities in 2013 (realistically it's more likely going to be around 3300-3500), but it's going to take a long time for us to catch up even with countries like Italy, not to mention Netherlands.
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Old October 15th, 2011, 10:23 AM   #6933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kooba View Post
Tough Words, but true.
Not at all. Yugoslavia, while officially "communist", had a lot of contacts with the West, and was way richer than the Eastern Bloc. And a lot of motorways in the most developed parts of the country (Slovenia) were built already in the 70's, so far far BEFORE the wars.

Sorry, the words of CrazySerb are just to pump his broken ego.
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Old October 15th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #6934
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Although my question concerns Russia, I think Polish members may be better in answering it...

In 2005, the Polish government rebuilt the S22 towards the Russian border, but I believe the Grzechotki border crossing itself didn't open until 2010. Is this now the main transit route to Kaliningrad? In other words, has the Russian side of the "Berlinka" now also been renovated and brought to modern standards? Google Earth imagery rather old though some sections appear to have been renovated.

Has the DK54 / A194 now fallen into disuse for international traffic to Kaliningrad?
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Old October 15th, 2011, 05:34 PM   #6935
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S22

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Although my question concerns Russia, I think Polish members may be better in answering it...

In 2005, the Polish government rebuilt the S22 towards the Russian border, but I believe the Grzechotki border crossing itself didn't open until 2010. Is this now the main transit route to Kaliningrad? In other words, has the Russian side of the "Berlinka" now also been renovated and brought to modern standards? Google Earth imagery rather old though some sections appear to have been renovated.

Has the DK54 / A194 now fallen into disuse for international traffic to Kaliningrad?
Berlinka:

I've checked discussion on S22 in Polish Forum.
First 10-15 km from Polish border - still concrete surface remembering time before WWII
Remaining part up to Kaliningrad - new asphalt
On entire stretch - speed limit 70km/h

In Gronowo (on DK54) crossing border only for cars below 6t is allowed, which means that TIRs go via Grzechotki

Last edited by Andrzej_3598; October 15th, 2011 at 05:50 PM.
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Old October 15th, 2011, 05:37 PM   #6936
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This case was discussed not so long ago on the polish S22 thread, i'll translate the whole post most relevant to the topic.
post is by gec:
Quote:
I traveled to Kaliningrad last week. I have a lot of photos, i might post them in this thread later on.

On the Russian part of Berlinka almost all of overpasses were demolished, all intersection were rebuilt to at grade with separate turning lanes (right/left).

The first 10-15km from the Polish border are still old german concrete plates that remember the 30's of the XXth century. They are quite equal and in good condition, unfortunately loud on the connections. The remaining section was rebuilt. The old southern concrete carriageway was closed for traffic and one drives on a new road built on the reserve for the second carriageway of the old highway . The route has an asphalt surface, in very good condition.

It is the only road in good condition in the Kaliningrad Region. The city itself has terrible roads.

Throughout the area from the border to Konigsberg there is a 70 km/h limit.

Traffic on the route is minimal. From the border to the city boundaries of Konigsberg is 40 km.

When you get out of town signs say you're 60km from Elblag, which is wrong, because the border is 40 km away and to Elblag from there it's almost 100km.

The biggest traffic on the border comes from polish smugglers. They ride back and forth for cheaper fuel. I never saw so many 20 year old Volkswagen Passats - I suspect that this model has a larger fuel tank than other cars.

The waiting time on the border is about 1 hour. In my opinion out of 50 cars in line, 1 or 2 were not smugglers.
Also apparently the truck traffic is 90% russian trucks going through Kaliningrad to Russia. However they say that while the traffic is minimal, truck traffic is even smaller, most trucks go through Budzisko.
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Old October 15th, 2011, 07:13 PM   #6937
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A1 Toruń - Grudziądz

More: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...89744&page=144

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusonaldo View Post
a)



















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Old October 15th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #6938
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Why do they sign Pruszcz Gdański? It's an insignificant town.
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Old October 15th, 2011, 07:26 PM   #6939
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My guess would be that the purpose is to sign how far it is to the end of A1 and since Rusocin is even more insignificant and a village, it makes more sense for them to sign the closest city which happens to be Pruszcz Gdański.
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Old October 15th, 2011, 07:38 PM   #6940
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I thought so. Although this is completely unnecessary information at this point. Who decides these control cities. Is it GDDKiA or the toll road company?
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