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Old October 31st, 2011, 01:38 AM   #7041
ChrisZwolle
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Well, like 80 % of the land area is indeed rather flat, with a few rolling hills here and there. Maybe as much as 90 - 95% of the motorway + expressway network is planned in the flatter areas.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 01:43 AM   #7042
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Yeah, I was talking about Poland being ALL flat. Obviously it is true Poland is mostly rather flat and most motorways/expressways avoid going through rough terrain. But S69 proves it's not like that everywhere here and we're going to have some more scenic expressways as well.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 01:53 AM   #7043
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Only the southern reaches of S7 and S69 are really in mountainous areas. Maybe add S7 near Kielce, but the altitude differences there are not as abrupt as they are in the south.

It's too bad though not much is being done to complete a high-standard route from Katowice to Bratislava. You have to detour via Brno. S69 near the Slovak border is far from a real motorway, as is Slovak D3, both being half-profile and even less finished
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Old October 31st, 2011, 05:50 AM   #7044
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's too bad though not much is being done to complete a high-standard route from Katowice to Bratislava.
Completion of the A1 to the CZ border will improve the Katowice <-> Brno route tremendously. At least there is a good Brno <-> Bratislava road. The Brno <-> Vienna road is much worse. There are plans in the distant future to upgrade the road from Breclav to Zlin. Until these are realized, the fastest and safest road will be via Brno.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 10:34 AM   #7045
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In my opinion designing such complicated and expensive viaduct was a big mistake. Poland has to build a lot of roads just to connect its major cities. We should use, as simple as possible standardized design for most of the bridges, viaducts and other structures. I don't care how fancy bridge on motorway looks like as long as it does the job.
Once we have major network ready we can have some fun with "signature" projects like the sorry viaduct in Mszana.

You are exactly right. The cost of that bridge would build plenty of roads elsewhere. but this happens all the time with road authorities building signature bridges they go over time and budget. otherwise roads seem great in poland. very impressive.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 10:58 AM   #7046
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Official information from GDDKiA website about S69 : http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/100...as-been-opened

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28-10-2011
The ring road of Bielsko- Biała has been opened


The ring road of Bielsko- Biała has been opened this afternoon. What a relief for both the people travelling to in the south of the country as well as residents of the city - all thanks to the 12-kilometres-long expressway providing separated traffic.

The construction of the ring road of Bielsko-Biala was a great challenge because the route is running through the heavily urbanized area. Part of the investment included improvement of the parameters of the former national road No. 52 in Bielsko-Biala to the level of an expressway, the remaining part of the route is a completely new construction. The section of the road with improved parameters is 2.8 km long, and the remaining part - 9.1 km. The ring road has two lanes on each roadway and emergency lanes. 3 new junctions were constructed under the contract: "Rosta", "Krakowska", "Mikuszowice", and one junction - "Komorowice" - has been renovated.



In the section which parameters were improved so that it became an expressway were all one-level intersections as well as public and individual exits have been liquidated. In place of the liquidated intersections of ul. Katowicka / ul. Węglowa and ul. Daszyńskiego the road overpasses constituting the part of the expressway were planned. The access roads being a part of the urban road and street system will provide access to the existing adjacent area. The two-level intersections and access roads will support the new section. The investment consisted in the construction and reconstruction of many engineering structures: flyovers, viaducts, service bridges, footbridge and tunnel for pedestrians, culverts and fortifications of the escarpments. The rainwater and sanitary sewage, water and gas networks were designed. All network elements colliding with the ring road (power lines, telecommunication, water system and other) were rebuilt.

The acoustic screens, separators, ecological tanks, insulation and protection green, as well as facilities designed for animal migration - environmental protection equipment and safety equipment such as protective barriers, fencing, vertical and horizontal signs.

• Decision on Location: 28.10.2008 for the section "Komorowice" - "Rosta", 21.10.2004 for the section "Rosta" - "Krakowska", 15.02.2006 for the section " Krakowska" - "Mikuszowice"
• Environmental Decision: 15.01.2008 on the section "Komorowice" - "Rosta", 26.11.2007 for the section "Rosta" - "Mikuszowice"
• Building Permit: 05.05.2009 for the section "Komorowice" - "Rosta", 03.07.2008 on the episode "Rosta" - "Mikuszowice"
• Signing the contract: 22.10.2008
• Investor: General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways in Katowice
• Designer: MOSTY KATOWICE Sp. z o. o.
• Contractor: consortium of companies HERMANN KIRCHNER Polska Sp. z o.o., HERMANN KIRCHNER Bauunternehmung GmbH, Bridge Works Company Przedsiębiorstwo Robót Mostowych (Bridge Works Company) "MOSTY- ŁÓDŹ" SA, Przedsiębiorstwo Usług Technicznych (Technical Services Enterprise) INTERCOR Sp. z o. o.
• Investor's Supervision: WS ATKINS - POLSKA Sp. z o. o.
• Transfer of the building site: 29.10.2008
• Start of works: 12.11.2008
• Value of works: PLN 1 253 million

Specifications:

• Category of the road: S
• Design speed: Vp = 80 km / h
• Traffic Category: KR6
• Number of roadways: 2
• Lane width: 3.5 m
• Emergency lane width: 2.5 m
• Embankments: 0.85 million m3
• Earthwork: 1.07 million m3
• Project website: http://www.obwodnica-bielska-bialej.pl/
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Old October 31st, 2011, 11:19 AM   #7047
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Quote:
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Yeap. Poland with the average height about 173 meters above sea level is definitely a "bad guy" for road constructions.
I cant’t undrestand why do You think that building roads on flat areas is easier than in other . Flat areas are frequently full of swamps, moors , rivers, streams and other unstable grounds. Another problem is lack of material i.e gravel. As far as I know gravel for northern part of A1 was transported from Scotland and from Sudety Mountains. When building in mountains you have a lot of material on-site. When building southern bypass of Gdansk , on very flat Zuławy area a lot of time and money have been spent on stabilization of ground - ground overload, vertical columns , so I think that "flat"ground is not a factor which determine if road is easy or non easy to build.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 01:19 PM   #7048
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I do not want to quarrel with you, I'm not a specialist but I think we can't treat every inch of the plains as wetlands, rivers or other unstable grounds. Northern part of A1 and south bypass of Gdansk is different story. I didn't say that flat areas are so easy land to build highways on them that we should pay builders sacks of rice. You know it's like explaining footballers for theirs match lost badly matched tiles in the locker room.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 07:59 PM   #7049
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Any news from the Stryków - Warsaw A2 (E30) stretch ?
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Old October 31st, 2011, 08:16 PM   #7050
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They are working 22 hour a day. It's becoming more and more likely that we might just see this motorway ready (to drive on) in 7 months. 2 months ago it seemed absolutely impossible, now I'm getting hopeful again. Let's hope the winter isn't too harsh.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 10:41 PM   #7051
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It's becoming more and more likely that we might just see this motorway ready (to drive on) in 7 months.
Do you mean all of it or just the two sections officially due in June? I guess perhaps by next summer we might have the two sections due in June completed and open on a 2x2 basis and the two sections due in October still under construction but open on a 2x1 basis.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 10:49 PM   #7052
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I think it's either going to be 2x2 or nothing. According to plan, those two sections that used to be built by COVEC are going to be fully drivable, 2x2 (with crash barriers and all safety features) in June. After the football championship they'll remain open, but probably will be reduced to 1x2 until everything is ready in October. That's the plan at least.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 11:18 PM   #7053
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Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
I think it's either going to be 2x2 or nothing. According to plan, those two sections that used to be built by COVEC are going to be fully drivable, 2x2 (with crash barriers and all safety features) in June. After the football championship they'll remain open, but probably will be reduced to 1x2 until everything is ready in October. That's the plan at least.
It sounds like a good plan. I hope it works out, but even 2x1 would be a big improvement over the status quo.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 11:22 PM   #7054
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Yeah, that will be an immense improvement over the current situation. Warsaw and Łodź are something like 110km apart in a straight line, but right now it takes 2-3 hours to get there by car, which is just ridiculous. Hopefully a year from now such a journey will take some 45 minutes.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 11:29 PM   #7055
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Can't wait to be able to drive from Paris to Warsaw ONLY through motorway We can already do it from Paris to Kraków, but the road to Warsaw is much nicer... and more countries to go through !

Since 2005, I always avoided the national road (droga krajowa) #2 from Świecko to Trzciel by exiting in Frankfurt/Oder-Mitte (German Autobahn A12), crossing the border in Słubice, next driving the voivodship road (droga wojewódzka) through Ośno Lubuskie, Sulęcin and Międzyrzecz. Much nicer road, less traffic, less radars and (almost) no trucks.

Last time I went there I could see the S3 expressway from Gorzów Wielkopolski through Świebodzin to Zielona Góra being built. This one is also interesting to follow, as it is essential for the Polish port of Świnoujście’s development…

Btw, for those who drove on both motorways, do you agree with me that A2 is nicer than A4 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Yeah, that will be an immense improvement over the current situation. Warsaw and Łodź are something like 110km apart in a straight line, but right now it takes 2-3 hours to get there by car, which is just ridiculous. Hopefully a year from now such a journey will take some 45 minutes.
Especially that you have nowhere to go. Either you take the fully one-lane option through Stryków, Łowicz and Sochaczew; or you drive through Brzeziny and Rawa Mazowiecka, from where the 2x2 DK8 is being turnt into the S8 expressway ... I drove there last summer & it was just horrible. But the result shall be really nice !
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old October 31st, 2011, 11:43 PM   #7056
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Warsaw and Łodź are something like 110km apart in a straight line, but right now it takes 2-3 hours to get there by car, which is just ridiculous. Hopefully a year from now such a journey will take some 45 minutes.
2 hours is my best-ever time from central Warsaw to the start of the A2 at Stryków.

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Can't wait to be able to drive from Paris to Warsaw ONLY through motorway
Yes, that will be nice. Should be about a 12 hour drive once the A2 is complete.

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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
We can already do it from Paris to Kraków, but the road to Warsaw is much nicer.
... and the road between Warsaw and Kraków is hell.

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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
Either you take the fully one-lane option through Stryków, Łowicz and Sochaczew; or you drive through Brzeziny and Rawa Mazowiecka, from where the 2x2 DK8 is being turnt into the S8 expressway ... I drove there last summer & it was just horrible. But the result shall be really nice !
I drove the DK2 in August and wished I had taken the DK8, which wasn't so bad when I drove it last year.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 12:12 AM   #7057
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2 hours is my best-ever time from central Warsaw to the start of the A2 at Stryków.
About the same for me, but I drove through Rawa Mazowiecka.

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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Yes, that will be nice. Should be about a 12 hour drive once the A2 is complete.
WOW ! Let's not exaggerate !!! )) It already takes me about 10h30-11h00 to go from Paris through Venlo to Słubice, although I drive fast in Germany! But 14 hours shall be doable !

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... and the road between Warsaw and Kraków is hell.
Definetly ! I don't understand why the S7 stretches between Radom and Kraków + Płońsk - Gdańsk seem to be no priority for GDDKiA. When you look at the map of Polish current & soon opened motorways & expressways, it looks as if Łódź were the capital !
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old November 1st, 2011, 12:21 AM   #7058
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WOW ! Let's not exaggerate !!! )) It already takes me about 10h30-11h00 to go from Paris through Venlo to Słubice, although I drive fast in Germany! But 14 hours shall be doable !
Hmmm. I'm not sure what "fast" means to you. With daylight and dry roads, I usually drive between 200km/h and 240km/h in Germany.

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Definetly ! I don't understand why the S7 stretches between Radom and Kraków + Płońsk - Gdańsk seem to be no priority for GDDKiA. When you look at the map of Polish current & soon opened motorways & expressways, it looks as if Łódź were the capital !
What??? You mean Łódź isn't the capital??? Seriously, trying to get through Radom is a nightmare. The bypass has been out to tender for what seems like a long time, but no contract has been awarded. In general, I don't understand why Warsaw - Kraków has been such a low priority. It's almost faster to go via Katowice and Piotrków Trybunalski.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 12:37 AM   #7059
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Hmmm. I'm not sure what "fast" means to you. With daylight and dry roads, I usually drive between 200km/h and 240km/h in Germany.
Me too But in France, I put my cruise control at 135 km/h, in Belgium I drive between 120 and 140 km/h, & in the Netherlands I don't go above 130 km/h. I got caught 2 months ago at the Belgian border on A67 (E34) at 1AM and, when I looked at my GPS, it turned out I put my cruise control at 123 km/h


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What??? You mean Łódź isn't the capital??? .
I mean: it looks as if Łódź were the capital (Wygląda jak by to Łódź była stolicą Polski a nie Warszawa). But maybe I'm wrong - it looks like Poland has 2 capitals: Łódź and the Silesia agglomeration (GOP) instead of Warsaw.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 07:14 PM   #7060
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Via Baltica in Poland - remember this decision from 2009 to change its route ? Here's something I found in the S61 sub-forum:

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Originally Posted by michael_siberia View Post
Schemat przebiegu dróg ekspresowych na Podlasiu (w tym S61):
About a week ago, the decision has been approved by the European Comission.

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Originally Posted by b0dek View Post
Taki maly dziesiejszy news ze stronki lokalnej :

Bruksela zatwierdza Via Balticę przez Łomżę
Według przedstawionej kilka dni temu przez Komisję Europejską propozycji przebiegu unijnych korytarzy transportowych, Via Baltica przebiega przez Łomżę. Jak podała Gazeta Wyborcza Komisja potwierdza przebieg szlaku, przyjęty w 2009 roku przez polski rząd.

Przypomnijmy przebieg Via Baltica przez Łomżę jako wariant najlepszy wskazała firma Scott Wilson która opracowała dokument o nazwie „Strategia rozwoju I Pan-Europejskiego Korytarza Transportowego. Część I - korytarz drogowy, tzw. Via Baltica”. To właśnie na podstawie tego opracowania rząd zmienił rozporządzenie o przebiegu autostrad i dróg ekspresowych w Polsce, wpisując na listę dróg ekspresowych S-61 (Ostrów Mazowiecka – Łomża – Szczuczyn – Ełk – Raczki – Suwałki – Budzisko (granica państwa)).
Przedstawione przez Komisję Europejską nowe przebiegi korytarzy transportowych już chyba ostatecznie „przyklepują” zmienia przebieg Via Baltica z wariantu przez Białystok na ten przez Łomżę i Ełk.
Stanowisko Brukseli zatwierdza też przebieg innego z komunikacyjnych szlaków Polski północno-wschodniej - kolejowej Rail Baltiki, która do krajów bałtyckich ma prowadzić z Warszawy przez Białystok, Ełk i Suwałki.
zrodlo: 4lomza
Hope this will make the ViaBaltica develop faster & turn into a 2x2 in PL, LT, LV & EST ...
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