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Old January 6th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #7501
and802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igorlan View Post
You’re exaggerating, by the end of 2015 Poland will have had a quite reasonable A & S network ...
let me give you some examples ...

A1 between Piotrkow and Slask - non existing
you cannot go from North of Poland, even from the center of Poland to the South using modern road system.

another example is S3,
next one is S5
next one is S17

need more ? or maybe easier: could you show me any finished motorway/expressway from north to south in 2015. I mean finished.

next thing:
almost whole Poland "B" not connected to the motorway system (except South: A2 motorway)

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Originally Posted by igorlan View Post

... but in my opinion most of visitors will appreciate that so much has been done instead of how much more still could be done. We could be only proud of the fact that in crisis times we’re still able to be building so many km of fast roads.
now forgive me my international collegues, but for me your impression is not the most important factor. how about Spain - the were doing something like 500 km a year. this is the score. (Chris de Zwolle, please correct my figures)


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Originally Posted by igorlan View Post
By comparison look at countries about the same size as Poland e.g. Romania, how many roads they build? They too are progressing but not as fast as we are. I would suggest you looking at the whole thing more optimistically instead of spotting only backwardness.
completely wrong assumption. why you chose Romania ?
Romania is a hilly country, and Polish GNP is more than twice more than Romanian one. Romanian GNP per capita is also different ...
why not compare Hungary ? but then you feel shamed.
all in all why to compare to anybody ? do not look at others and feel happy, just improve your own moves.



all in all I am not pesimistic - actually I am happy it goes as it is now...
but what really worries me is that we do not have the long term plan for target motorway system with specific dates. all I can see (unless I am wrong) is a map of motorway system in 2020. but this is a very general plan, and if it does not have specific year for each section, then - for me - it is compelety useless or - if you prefer - politicans imagination/wishful thinking.

remember I base my opinion on facts, I do not base my opinions on very general plans with no dates/attached to imaginated routes. I do not really take into consideration seriously opinions like: "If we have enough money, we will do it" or "if crisis is gone we will speed up the process". I am trying to tell you is that if we do not establish a national motorway program with reserved fundings in each annual national budget, than this is just worthless.
you see I have been following "polish motorway construction programme" for last 20 years in Poland, and you know what: in nineties I saw impressive road system as of 2000. now, I do not know your age, but in 2000 the road system was hmmm, not satisfactionary..., now I can see the same, only plans no real steps...

so only facts please, no wishful thinking
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Old January 6th, 2012, 02:32 PM   #7502
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It is a fact that a huge portion of the money for building A/S roads in Poland comes from the EU. It is a fact that the Polish government doesn't know how much the EU will give for road building in 2014-2020. It is a fact that the Polish government doesn't know which specific roads the EU will fund in 2014-2020.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #7503
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@ and802 - Well, you don’t need to make any effort to show me what is still missing by 2015 as I am entirely aware what is going on in this field. Like you I have been following this topic since early 90ties and in contradiction with you I am finding a tremendous progress in that matter. Only by the fact that I still can easily remember how my travel to Western Europe looked like at the end of 90ties and how it looks now. There is no question about neglectedness resulted from lack of general conceptual study especially in the 90ties but since Poland was chosen to co-host Euro, the initial national road program has been designed. Obviously realization this program primarily depends on economic condition, which we all know, we are not living in the safest times. I compared with Romania, as, let’s say we are much closer to compare with each other than with Spain which you referred to. Spain started building their road infrastructure far before any crisis was even imagined; we could say that presumably they are now paying their price due to their reckless politics in terms of spending too much public money and now their national debt is bigger by 11% then ours. Hungary? To be honest I don’t feel ashamed as there is no need to be, especially in the current context of their economic problems, again national debt bigger than ours by 26%. Besides it’s different scale, country is much smaller and it takes much fewer effort to create a good network. I will agree if Poland had started building roads 10 years earlier, we would have been in much more comfortable situation, however now we have to refer to current tough times I would primarily consider current economic conditions as this determines how much money we could spend on building and realizing the program. Most of the countries had to drastically reduce their infrastructural programs due to lack of funding. Also credits granted by commercial banks are not getting cheaper but rather get more expensive, therefore we can’t afford to stick to the motorway program as we wished to.
Summarizing, I understand all what you say and mostly I agree, but especially in the current times, we could be proud that we are building that much, whereas others tighten their budgets and withdraw their plans.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #7504
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Our government is widely criticized, but as a matter of fact, they keep finances quite stable on this rough time, and still manage to invest in infrastructure.

Just look at this map: http://stadiony.klszarak.org/scc_a_s.swf There will be two times more motorways in 2015, than in 2010, and almost three times more expressways (this future predicts count only roads with contracts already signed, so in reality it can look only better). If its not impressive, than I dont know what is.

Now we will witness big slow down in next few years, but it's because no one know how new UE budget will look like.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #7505
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So what roads can anyone give an opinion of what will be contracted and signed in the 2014-2020 budget taken into account the current euro crisis...at the very least which roads will be most likely signed?
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Old January 6th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #7506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.cool View Post
So what roads can anyone give an opinion of what will be contracted and signed in the 2014-2020 budget taken into account the current euro crisis...at the very least which roads will be most likely signed?
This is pretty accurate map (but until we know new budget nothing is for sure):



Green - to be build untill 2015
Red - priorities for 2014-2020
Orange - reserved projects for 2014-2020
Blue - public-private partnership

A1 in PPP is now most doubtful, so there is possibility that it will be build in expense of some "priority" roads. In my opinion, but it's only mine it will be S5 Wrocław-Poznań.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 07:56 PM   #7507
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I guess the A18 and S61 are probably higher on the EU's priority list than on the PL government's priority list. We'll have to wait to find out. If the EU provide enough of the funding, PL will build them when the EU wants. It's difficult to refuse other people's money.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #7508
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Opening of Kielce bypass - actually S7:



28 years have gone
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
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Old January 8th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #7509
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Thanks for the video. It is very interesting.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #7510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
Opening of Kielce bypass - actually S7:



28 years have gone
From the first seconds we can see the "crazy driver"
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Old January 8th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #7511
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Guys what about S1 between Katowice and Bielsko - Biała? Now it is a dual carriageway if I am sure and it is quite busy, any chance they will rebuild it soon?
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Old January 8th, 2012, 05:47 PM   #7512
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According to official 2011-2015 plan, S1 Kosztowy-Bielsko Biała will be built after 2013.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #7513
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Old January 8th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #7514
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Now five sections out for tender. Are any more contract signings expected any time soon?
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Old January 8th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #7515
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One film from the Eastern A2 section.
The second one shows how to go from one of the A2 exits (the one from which the first movie started) to the town of Mińsk Mazowiecki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daj_pan_spokoj View Post
No coś Ty - w miejscu, o którym piszesz jest na pewno o wiele porządniej

Dwa filmy z A2:

Przejazd od WA15 do węzła Arynów (tak wiem, jeszcze nie dopuszczona do ruchu...)


Przejazd z węzła Arynów do Mińska Maz. Pod koniec uchwyciłem przykładne zawodowego kierowcy..
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old January 9th, 2012, 04:19 AM   #7516
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Hows the winter weather holding up in Poland? Have we managed to see construction still taking place during the season yet?
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Old January 9th, 2012, 06:59 AM   #7517
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There's been a lot, because there really hasn't been much winter at all. Barely any snow and nice and warm (for the season anyway) temperatures mostof the time.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:55 AM   #7518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
maybe easier: could you show me any finished motorway/expressway from north to south in 2015. I mean finished.
A4.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #7519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
maybe easier: could you show me any finished motorway/expressway from north to south in 2015. I mean finished.
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Originally Posted by G0KU View Post
A4.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 01:25 PM   #7520
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A4 runs north - south on the west side of Kraków
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