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Old February 24th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #7661
toonczyk
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Yeah, we're having some fun with how media handle this here as well. Some of the first articles on this matter were accompanied by photos of roads in Japan, damaged by last year's tsunami... But we're kind of used to that, our media have always been terrible in reporting infrastructure-related news. It is kind of funny how ignorant journalists are, but at the same time it's really sad too, because this is where most people get their knowledge on the subject and then it takes years to quell some of the ridiculous misconceptions about motorways. And it takes only one stupid article every few weeks to make people believe, that:
1) there are no motorways in Poland and never will be, because...
2) there are no motorways U/C in Poland
3) our motorways (which we don't have) are by far the most expensive roads in the world, both to build and to use
4) our motorways are not really motorways, because it's just a layer of tar on top of a layer of sand, we'll never have roads as good as in the west
5) our motorways will need to be closed and repaired within months after opening
6) they're not really motorways, because they are just 2x2, and two lanes are not enough, no matter what.

And so on.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #7662
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My father is a retired journalist, so my perspective may be a bit different. In my opinion, journalism is a profession that was damaged more than most by the soviet occupation. I think it will be only after those "educated" during the occupation have all retired that journalism will fully recover.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #7663
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I don't think so, I think the competition from tabloid journalism and the internet slowly kills real journalism. I don't know about the western EU, but that's certainly what is happening here, as well as in the USA. In the 24-hour news cycle, real, deep journalism just doesn't sell anymore. If the media said "there are some cracks in the surface of a motorway, but it's not that unusual and it's being handled appropriately, end of story", nobody would take interest. So they have to write "OH MY GOD, MOTORWAY WORTH TWENTY TRILLION DOLLARS HAS TO BE DEMOLISHED AND BUILT FROM SCRATCH, OUR EXPERTS SAY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE IN THE PROCESS", so that people buy it and have something to complain about.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #7664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
My father is a retired journalist, so my perspective may be a bit different. In my opinion, journalism is a profession that was damaged more than most by the soviet occupation. I think it will be only after those "educated" during the occupation have all retired that journalism will fully recover.
Journalism in Italy is absolute shit, and we've never been occupied by commies...
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Old February 24th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #7665
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Yep, same in the Netherlands. I mean a crack in a Polish motorway, is that really newsworthy in the Netherlands? I'd say it's not even newsworthy in the local newspaper. It's just a regular repair that happens across the continent every single day. There have been a few scandals about universities teaching journalism, they had to review dozens of papers, and a number of journalists who got a 7 or 8 (on a scale from 1 - 10) actually failed it. So the quality of journalism is going downhill quite fast, especially with all these twitter news agencies popping up in the last few years. What also significantly reduces the quality of news sites is the option of commenting on articles. If you read those comments you'd think 90% of the Netherlands has an IQ of 60 or lower...

GDDKiA notes that the cracks will be repaired quickly and on the expense of the contractor. More interestingly, they also comment that the working procedure which may have caused the cracks are standard and applied on other roads without problems too. I feel bad for the GDDKiA PR staff, having to debunk those crap news stories all the time. I noticed a vast increase of press releases by GDDKiA correcting media errors in the past year.

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/10541/...y-spekan-na-A2

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; February 24th, 2012 at 03:18 PM.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #7666
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Quote:
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What also significantly reduces the quality of news sites is the option of commenting on articles. If you read those comments you'd think 90% of the Netherlands has an IQ of 60 or lower...
Brilliant polish SF writer and probably one of the most intelligent people we've had around, Stanisław Lem, once said he never realized how many idiots there are in the world, until he'd started using the Internet. It is kind of sad, that usually it's the people who have nothing to say that are shouting the loudest.
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I noticed a vast increase of press releases by GDDKiA correcting media errors in the past year.
Yes, they are very active lately, but I think it's tilting at windmills. Even if the media publish their responses, people still don't really believe that, because general public has very little confidence in public institutions in Poland.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #7667
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Adding to all above - cracks are not on the final layers. And there are 5 years guarantee of constructors of all newbuilt highways. So please - just for a moment - let's forget about news guys.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #7668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The media is trash. People read it because there are no alternatives. Everyone involved in a particular subject knows the media often exaggerates problems, makes loads of errors or publicizes non-news as "news".
I think it results from attitude of Dutch conservative milieus to new EU: if twenty years ago there was something unlikely for "west" and (cheap!) workers from this countries hide their windows by some "rags" (and sometimes do more unbelievable things), organising football championship by poor Poland must be filled with failures and stopgaps. Conservative people are the most grateful recipients of media, because they believe to every word matching to their opinions and show emotions induced by articles, so such articles are some flatteries for them.

I believe that not every Dutch see the collapse of Poland in cracks on surface of built motorway and also some of them think that this country isn't as savage as it would be likely.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #7669
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+1. But I think we should end of all of those OT right now. Let's stop feeding media
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Old February 24th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #7670
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If there were no media, there would also be no public control and that means no pressure. That the media follow its own agenda is another problem. Anyway, it is better to have crappy media, than no media. Now a days, there is internet, and if there is someone who is really interested and wants to know what the things are, he can most of the times get to the facts.

Above that. Media are not specialized. They just report about things they have no technical insight in. It is completaly normal, that when an infrastructure engineer talks with e.g. IT engineer he would hardly feel that the IT person has something to say about the bridges he built, vice versa its the same. The journalists are at most educated in only one direction, mostly in no direction. The news itself is their specilisation. Thus it is more then natural that their reporting cannot be to the satisfaction of people that have insight.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 01:55 PM   #7671
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Quote:
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Above that. Media are not specialized. They just report about things they have no technical insight in. It is completaly normal, that when an infrastructure engineer talks with e.g. IT engineer he would hardly feel that the IT person has something to say about the bridges he built, vice versa its the same. The journalists are at most educated in only one direction, mostly in no direction. The news itself is their specilisation. Thus it is more then natural that their reporting cannot be to the satisfaction of people that have insight.
I don't know about that. In the good old days, before publishing a piece, journalists did a little thing called research. They studied the subject, they talked to people who are experts in the field, they looked for opinions of all parties involved etc. As a result, the articles may have lacked in terms of technical vocabulary, but at least they were truthful and fairly balanced in terms of opinions. Now I feel like journalists don't even think it really matters if the story is true or not, they don't bother checking with any sources. Facts don't matter all that much anymore, what's important is a juicy opinion, preferably with some finger pointing.

Don't get me wrong - even the worst press is better than no press. And it's probably better to have them chasing fake stories, but keeping people responsible for spending our money on their toes, than to have media just praising the administration and allowing them to do whatever they want. As long as the citizens have limited access to public information (which unfortunately is still true), the media are on the frontline of people's oversight over government and no matter how bad a job they're doing, it's better than nothing.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:43 PM   #7672
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I don't know about that. In the good old days,
You mean before 1989? Because I'm pretty sure that the only news given was that which Moscow wanted you guys to hear. Everyone knew it was propaganda and lies, but it was the best you could do officially. Now, the journalism that you heard from Western Europe and America under secret, yes that was "quality" reporting back then.
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But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when there´s snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of it´s best definition first. -Radi Click
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Old February 26th, 2012, 08:09 AM   #7673
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Next election in Poland will be in 2014 or so. So the government don't need good news right now. It is better to report now: "we have a problem" and then open the road in 100 days even if not everything will be 100% ready than to tell now: "we have all under control" and be criticized in 100 days because not everything will be 100% ready.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #7674
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Some road cameras showing road conditions if someone's heading toward Polish Tatra mountains:http://wtatry.eu/kamery
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Old February 29th, 2012, 01:44 AM   #7675
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What are all these yellow sections between the German border and Strykow?
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This "potion" that turns you from Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde looks an awful lot like six cans of Stella.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 02:18 AM   #7676
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yellow filling means tolled section
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Old February 29th, 2012, 03:01 AM   #7677
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Ah, got it, I was wondering why it wasn't green because I knew it was finished. This clears it up, thanks. Do you know the exact date when the Strykow-Warsaw section will be open?
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This "potion" that turns you from Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde looks an awful lot like six cans of Stella.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 05:58 AM   #7678
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No one knows, because one (20km) part of this section is far behind.
We should be able to drive from Strykow to Warsaw in may, but this one poart will be unfinished and will probably have 70-90kph speed limit.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:34 PM   #7679
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Does anybody have progress information on the petrol stations between Świecko and Nowy Tomyśl? they should be complete in March/April, depending on where you look.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:19 AM   #7680
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On the http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/pl/index , there is offiacial info that MOP Sosna (rest area) - 5km A2 will be open in april. MOP Rogoziniec (85km) will be open in may
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