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Old March 24th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #7761
niskogradnja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I hope Poland fixes its noise regulations, because this is completely over the top.
Sorry, but u have to learn how corruption works: More soundwalls- more money. (We need more walls here, and also there...)
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Old March 24th, 2012, 11:47 PM   #7762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I hope Poland fixes its noise regulations, because this is completely over the top. Numerous new roads in Poland are excessively soundwalled to a point it becomes claustrophobic.



"Poland, the country behind soundwalls".
Common! It's like on A2 and N2 in Eindhoven, but the speed limit in Eindhoven is 120/80 km/h and here with soundwalls you have 140 km/h. What do u prefer?
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Old March 24th, 2012, 11:56 PM   #7763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mappero View Post
the speed limit in Eindhoven is 120/80 km/h and here with soundwalls you have 140 km/h.
There is a 80km/h speed limit on this bridge.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 11:56 PM   #7764
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I prefer a pragmatic approach to traffic noise. You can't conform to 45 or 50 dB along every road (or railroad for that matter) at all cost.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 12:17 AM   #7765
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Don't take to yourself too deeply but it's very Dutch approach... and you are Dutch...
Money it's not the main factor of decision or project management as some people would like to follow.
It's better to have possibility to see surrounding when you drive but... will you live in this house here: A28
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Old March 25th, 2012, 12:40 AM   #7766
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I hate those soundwalls, but probably the reason is chaotic urbanisation as in mappero example, in Poland there are often houses in the middle of nothing...
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Old March 25th, 2012, 12:54 AM   #7767
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It's important to understand that the 50 dB limit is exceeded in virtually every city street, not just along major trafficked roadways. In fact 500 mopeds, 1.000 cars or 100 trucks a day is enough to exceed 50 dB at properties close to the roadway. And sound screens are not feasible in most of those situations (you can't put a 4 m tall noise screen along every urban street).
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Old March 25th, 2012, 12:59 AM   #7768
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With motorways/highways it's very different. The problem is not single object making xx dB. Those mentioned roads are source of constant moderate noise - all they long and night. And this is more dangerous for human live in vicinity.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #7769
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Many more houses are within 10 - 20 meters of an urban street than a motorway or expressway... In fact a building at a distance of 80 meters of 100 km/h 50.000 vpd traffic may recieve just as much noise as a building at a distance of 15 meters of 50 km/h 20.000 vpd traffic. The decibel scale is logaritmic. circa 3 dB equals double volume or double distance.

The usual approach in the Netherlands is to make the sides of the buildings facing the roadway (thus receive most noise) "deaf" by soundproofing it. It's far more cost effective than giant noise screens to protect only a few buildings. Besides that, it only applies to buildings with constant habitation (like houses) which excludes office buildings or industrial areas.

That's what I mean with "pragmatic". You can't expect urban environments to have 50 dB or less noise levels at all times. 50 dB is really low. The rule should be "50 dB if reasonably and cost-effectively possible". Besides, I'm wondering what these noise screens so close to the roadway will do for traffic safety, it obstructs the line of sight in curves.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 01:41 AM   #7770
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To be brutally honest, at times those soundwalls look to me as a fairly good way to hide ugliness of some neighbourhoods.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 03:27 AM   #7771
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At least they could be more aesthetic

Kraków
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:21 AM   #7772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niskogradnja View Post
Sorry, but u have to learn how corruption works: More soundwalls- more money. (We need more walls here, and also there...)
Your scenario could exist 20 years ago, but today it's just maniacal care about electorate (less noise - more votes).
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #7773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I hope Poland fixes its noise regulations, because this is completely over the top. Numerous new roads in Poland are excessively soundwalled to a point it becomes claustrophobic.
You know, this is not a motorway in a middle of nowhere, it's an urban thoroughfare build in the middle of existing urban fabric. There is a lot of existing and planned development around this road, and I'm not talking about two houses in the middle of nothing, there are and will be a lot of mid-rise residential development in direct proximity.
Also, it is an extremely difficult thing to build anything in this country without NIMBYs opposition. Such soundproofing numbs down the protests and is less expensive than years spent in court.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #7774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukaszek89 View Post
I hate those soundwalls, but probably the reason is chaotic urbanisation as in mappero example, in Poland there are often houses in the middle of nothing...
I hope, but sometimes, when i see where they place it (sometimes in the middle of nowhere, with no houses or any other buildings, where it's really unnecessary) I'm affraid that the real reason is corruption, as in niskogradnja example
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:51 AM   #7775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Llama View Post
Such soundproofing numbs down the protests and is less expensive than years spent in court.
That's what I mean by fixing regulation.

I'm not saying there shouldn't any noise abatement at all, but all these 5 - 6 meter tall screens immediately next to the driving lanes are completely over the top, especially considering most buildings along the Northern Bridge and its approaches are at least 100 meters away from the highway.

What's the exact noise level limit in Poland? In the Netherlands the preferred limit for road traffic noise is 48 dB but "escape clauses" to 53 dB in rural and 63 dB in urban areas are possible (as much as 73 dB in (rare) specific cases along railroads even). But if you go over them you need soundproofing.

My apartment receives 81 dB due to a railroad by the way. But I prefer that over a giant noise screen that blocks my view. My apartment is soundproofed and I can barely hear the trains inside.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #7776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niskogradnja View Post
Sorry, but u have to learn how corruption works: More soundwalls- more money. (We need more walls here, and also there...)
Stupid talking... Just ask people who lives near motorways what they feel when this stupid "soundwalls" doesn't exist!!
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Old March 25th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #7777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaskovitz View Post
Stupid talking... Just ask people who lives near motorways what they feel when this stupid "soundwalls" doesn't exist!!
The problem is, that sometimes people don't want soundwalls in front of their homes - for example in Cracow, when new tram line was built. Unfortunatly, no one in Infrastructure and Communication Department cared about it, and the soundwalls were built

It's crazy, isn't it?
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Old March 25th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #7778
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The government is obligated to "protect its citizens from noise", so they have to install a noise screen, whether people like it or not. We've had similar cases in the Netherlands. However, this obligation usually only applies if there is a new or modified road, so existing violations of noise levels do not have to be mitigated. That's why you only see these giant noise screens along new or reconstructed roads, and Poland has a lot of them
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Old March 25th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #7779
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just out of curiosity: why dont you use transparent soundwalls?
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Old March 25th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #7780
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Pictures made by amiron from this thread.

The order of the pictures is from Konotopa road junction toward Stryków. You can clearly see why they build a "tunnel without the roof".







I guess there's the limit between D and E sections... Differences in the progress of the construction is so moving...





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