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Old May 7th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #7961
ufonut
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ViaToll stats:

37 milion transations per month
760.000 units sold so far
3000 transactions per month contested (making it less than 1%)
System will generate 1.1 bilion zloty by the end of the year and pay itself off in a record time.
Fastest ViaToll deployment ever in less than 8 months (Czech Republic 12 months, Austria 18 months).
System will be expanded further in the next two months.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #7962
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Could you or someone else answer few questions? It would be great to know.

1. Who build and operates the whole system? How was the contract awarded?

2. What were the costs for building the system? Were the construction costs payed at once or is there some payment schedulle?

3. What are the maintanance costs? Are there lump sum maintanance yearly costs? Is there a fee from the total transactions?

4. Connected to the last point. What is the yearly gross and yearly net proffit of the system. And how much of this profit goes directly to the motorway funding.

Thx a lot.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #7963
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look here http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/9106/w...nka-na-e-mycie the page is in Polish, but I think that you will understand
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Old May 7th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #7964
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Thx for the link.

They say that the total incomes between 2011 and 2018 are estimated at 23.6 mld zloty. And that the costs for which Kapsh builds it are at 4.9 mld zloty.

What is not clear to me is, whether these costs paid to Kapsh are also maintenance costs, or whether it is only for the construction. What are then the maintenance costs? This is crucial information for any evaluation of the whole thing.

Even if those 4.9 mld were already total costs over the whole period 2011-2018 I think that 21 % to the private hands of Kapsh is bit too much indeed (not counting the time value of money). Thus the story repeats.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #7965
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23.6 mld zloty - this is estimate for ETC (> 3,5 t and buses) + MTC (< 3,5 t)

1. Public tender, result: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/d/6c11b2...143c21a792fc4a
MyToll offered GNSS system but was defeated by Kapsch with DSRC system.

2&3&4. For ETC only


Source in Polish: http://www.pisil.pl/images/artykuly/...awek_11_03.pdf

Last edited by Janek0; May 7th, 2012 at 09:55 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #7966
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Thx. So interestingly Kapsh offered yet better price than the competitor.

In the data from this pdf the ratio that goes to Kapsh is even better. Full 26 %. and not thinking the time value of money.

Anyway.It seems to me that the Polish system of public tenders (certainly in transportation) works much better than the Czech one and I expect much less corruption problems in Poland than in CZ. I like the Polish tendering.

Althoug, in general two competitors is not much and also auction system of tendering is yet better and would drive the price lower. Are there used auctions in Poland for some of the tendering?
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Old May 7th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #7967
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ViaTOLL prices are relatively low, probably the cheapest electronic truck tolling system in Europe, at € 7 - 13 cents per kilometer, depending on Euro emission class. ViaTOLL should be able to raise € 1 billion per year if they apply German toll rates, and € 1.2 - 1.4 billion if they apply Czech toll rates (not to mention € 3.5 billion if they apply the ridiculous Swiss tolls).
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Old May 7th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #7968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
ViaTOLL prices are relatively low, probably the cheapest electronic truck tolling system in Europe, at € 7 - 13 cents per kilometer, depending on Euro emission class. ViaTOLL should be able to raise € 1 billion per year if they apply German toll rates, and € 1.2 - 1.4 billion if they apply Czech toll rates (not to mention € 3.5 billion if they apply the ridiculous Swiss tolls).
We take our time.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #7969
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ViaToll might be cheap but it makes our long haulers competitive.

Aside from that the government will lower the tolls on government-owned highways by 50% beginning next month (if I am not mistaken).
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Old May 8th, 2012, 03:55 AM   #7970
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A2 Stryków - Konotopa

Mega foto trip by @mkuldane, from A2 from junction Żyrardów to rest area Brwinów, 550photos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkuldane View Post
Jedziemy z wspomnianą przeze mnie wczorajszą wycieczką.
Zaczynam gdzieś w połowie drogi między węzłem Żyrardów i MA280. Widok w stronę Strykowa


Obok ( po stronie północnej ) na serwisówce jest MD280


and by @koszatek, from Łagów to Ząbki. Also few hundred photos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koszatek View Post
-> Konotopa:


-> Stryków:


Do czego to służy?


Jadę dalej:


cdn.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #7971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post

Anyway.It seems to me that the Polish system of public tenders (certainly in transportation) works much better than the Czech one and I expect much less corruption problems in Poland than in CZ. I like the Polish tendering.

Althoug, in general two competitors is not much and also auction system of tendering is yet better and would drive the price lower. Are there used auctions in Poland for some of the tendering?
The public procurement system in Poland is quite clear - once you fulfill formal requirements, then you submit an offer, and the cheapest one win. This is most common solution.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 10:30 PM   #7972
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It may not be the best solution, because usually you don't know whether a contractor did its job right or not until it's too late. Cheapest is not always the best, as you may have noticed with Strabag and COVEC.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #7973
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Chris, bewu1 simplified the situation.

usually there are more than one factor in public bids (controlled by UZP let me translate it onto: Public Bid Office). there are more then one criteria/factor. it could be something like 4-5 factors (time, price, references, guarantee period, etc) each one is clearly weighted.

anyway, the formal requirements bewu1 is mentioning should be strict enough to elimnate unwanted bidders - Crhis, in your example it did not work.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #7974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bewu1 View Post
The public procurement system in Poland is quite clear - once you fulfill formal requirements, then you submit an offer, and the cheapest one win. This is most common solution.
Yeah, I was just curious if there are auctions used in some cases. The auction is the most effective in any price setting activity where you have several competitiors.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 01:16 AM   #7975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmieciu View Post
A2 Stryków - Konotopa

Mega foto trip by @mkuldane, from A2 from junction Żyrardów to rest area Brwinów, 550photos.


and by @koszatek, from Łagów to Ząbki. Also few hundred photos.
Fantastic stuff.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #7976
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May 1st, Section D, A2 between Lodz and Warsaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyoor View Post
Kilka fotek z części odcinka D. Stan na 1 maja. Jeśli pokręciłem coś z nazewnictwem obiektów to proszę o wyrozumiałość

WD 290

WD 291

WD 292

WD 293


WD 295

WD 296

MOP Brwinów


MA 298

WD 300
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Old May 9th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #7977
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I would like to thank the many contributors who have posted up information on the progress of the a2 from Swiecko to Warsaw. I spend around 1 month a year in Russia and I drive from London all the way to Dmitrov outside Moscow. I have watched progress every year and am hoping it will be fully "open" by August 2012. The charts of the weekly reports on the roads authority website suggest to me that even section "c" might be driveable by this time, given the current rates of weekly progress. My route through Poland takes in the A2, the S8, Lomza, Augustow and Sumalki. The first year I did this route there was only the original Nowy Tomysyl to Konin part of the A2 open. And I have one question: the nice grey boxes on columns (called poles in England) which take your picture in villages: are they set to 50kph, 60 kph or something a little higher? I try to follow speed limits in villages and this causes problems with the local drivers ;-)
Les
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Old May 9th, 2012, 07:35 PM   #7978
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By law, speed cameras have to have at least +10kph tolerance, so if there's 50kph limit, photos are taken from 61kph up.
And before a speed camera there have to be warning sign.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 09:26 PM   #7979
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Full aerial coverage of A2 Warszawa-Łódź:
http://www.tvn24.pl/0,11347,,,przele...a2,raport.html
(Click the letters A-D on the map).

The tv journalists launched their helicopter and made those films to show us that this motorway isn't ready. That's why they didn't bother to fly over section E (where the contractor just yesterday asked the proper authorities for the paper called "certificate / permit to use").
EDIT: To compensate - here's a driving video of section E (and a little bit of D):
Quote:
Originally Posted by olszewik View Post

Enjoy.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #7980
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Looking at the 4 videos posted above, I don't see how any one of these four sections could open before August. Now I'm hoping that the A2 from Warsaw to Łódź will open before the end of 2012.
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