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Old May 24th, 2012, 09:19 PM   #8161
Surel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
To the extent that a motorcyclist's use of the road is rivalrous, i.e. that it prevents someone else from using the road, then an argument can be made that a motorcyclist should have to pay. However, in my experience, a motorcyclist's use of the road is generally non-rivalrous.

The demand for motorways would be essentially the same even if there were no motorcyclists.
I can understand the problem with the size of the toll. But I dont understand why would you like to differnetiate the motorcyclist as special sort of users that dont need to pay.

The logic is simple. Once decided that the construciton and maintanance is financed through a toll and not e.g. flat taxes => The good is considered private. Thus the user is who pays. Does the motorcyclist use it? Yes, he does. Thus he has to pay. Does he not use it? Well, he doesnt have to pay. Simple.

Rivalry doesnt really play a role on the motorways unless you are with 100 000 vehicles on 2x2 and is not a reason for the tolling. (except tolling e.g. city centers etc).
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Old May 24th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #8162
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Originally Posted by E2rdEm View Post
Let's say I'm an average car-user of the tolled road.
I use only a small fraction of the surface, don't I? So my way of using the road is non-rivalrous. There is no way I've prevented anyone from using the road. Why should I pay for the road?

The demand for motorways would be essentially the same even if I wasn't using them. Logical conclusion - according to @mcarling - I shouldn't pay for the road.


And, by the way, every time I see a motorbike on a plain highway outside built-up area, they use the middle of the lane. Their occupancy of the road is essentialy the same as for a passenger car. It is stupidly unsafe to drive a motorbike any other way on highways & motorways. How can you say it's not a "rivalrous use" then?
Every time I drive, there are cars where I want to be. From my perspective, they are in my way. I would reach my destination faster if they weren't there. I can't remember the last time a motorcycle was in my way. When was the last time you had difficulty passing a slow motorcyclist?

The middle of the lane is the most dangerous place for a motorcycle to be. That's where the road is oiliest.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #8163
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Some news from GDDKiA website:

http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10725/The-...system-in-2012

Quote:
The map of road network subject to electronic and manual toll collection system in 2012

Beginning with July 2012, the network of toll national roads within the viaTOLL system will be extended by new sections: S7 Elbląg – junction Pasłęk Północ, DK91 crossroads with DK6 – junction Nowe Marzy, DK91 crossroads with S5 – Łysomice (crossroads with voivodeship road no 552), DK92 Września – border of the town of Konin, DK92 border of the town of Konin – Łowicz (crossroads with DK2 and DK14), DK94 junction Modlnica – Radzikowski Junction. On the above-mentioned sections the Operator of the National System of Toll Collection – consortium Kapsch will place special gates and will start collecting tolls from drivers of lorries travelling along these roads.

As of 1st June 2012 drivers of passenger vehicles using toll sections of motorways managed by the General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways (A2 Konin – Stryków and A4 Wrocław – Sośnica) will be able to use a system of toll collection alternative to the manual payment system. The service of electronic toll collection will enable a user to pay the toll by means of a viaAUTO device electronically, without the need to halt at the toll collection point.



Having bought and placed the viaAUTO in the vehicle, the user will be able to choose two methods of paying the toll: in the pre-pay mode (a payment system in which the toll is paid by the user in advance, before using a toll motorway) or in a mode with payment delay (a payment system in which the toll is paid by the user at the end of a monthly payment period). The aim of the service is to improve the comfort of drivers of passenger vehicles who often use sections of A2 and A4 motorways.
http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10873/Envi...not-threatened

Quote:
Environment properly protected. EU money not threatened.

The ring-road of Mińsk Mazowiecki was prepared and is being constructed in such a way that there is no risk of losing EU funds due to environment protection. As early as in 2008, that is when the investment was prepared, the General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways acted in accordance with the EU requirements , despite the lack of full regulations in this respect in the Polish legal system.

Within the procedure of issuing construction permit, the influence on environment was analysed, and all solutions relating to environmental protection were included in the permit for the construction of the ring road of Mińsk Mazowiecki. From the moment when the environmental decision was obtained, technical solutions and the scope of investment have not changed. It means that the investment is being accomplished in accordance with administrative decisions that have been issued. Thanks to this, the financial support from the EU funds is not threatened.



In 2008 when preparations to begin the construction of the ring road of Mińsk Mazowiecki were made, the Polish legal system was not fully adjusted to the EU requirements with respect to environmental protection while accomplishing infrastructural investments. However, the General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways acted treating the EU law as superior to Polish law in order to protect the usage of the EU funds while accomplishing all its investments, including the ring road of Mińsk Mazowiecki.



For the purpose of issuing the decision on the permit for the construction of the ring road of Mińsk Mazowiecki an additional report on environmental influence was prepared – in accordance to the prerequisites of the Ministry of Regional Development. It has been attached to the application form and was consulted and analysed by voivodeship authorities. (Decision on the permit for the construction was issued in the so-called transitional period – before publishing the new assessment act, which introduced a possibility of conducting re-assessment of environmental influence). The report contained a detailed scope of works on particular stages together with giving precise solutions to protect the environment. In the report the following parameters of road constructions have been detailed:

The number of traffic lanes – 2x3,75 m for the first construction stage, 3x3,75 m – for the final stage
The width of a traffic lane – 3,75 m
The width of emergency lane – 3,0 m
The width of ground shoulder – changing from 1,25 to 3,7 m
The width of division lane with band – 0,5 m – 12,5 m for the first construction stage, 5 m for the final stage.

The decision on environmental conditions necessary to issue the permission to accomplish the investment for the Motorway Ring Road of Minsk Mazowiecki along the route of the A2 motorway (WŚ.I.EM/6613/1/33/06) presuming the choice of the best variant in terms of environment was taken by Masovian Voivode on 2nd October 2006.



The decision was issued after completing the procedure of environmental influence assessment on the basis of a report on environmental influence. This document analyses and describes the investment accomplishment in II stages:



Stage I – as a construction of a ring road of Mińsk Mazowiecki with motorway parameters

The final stage II was to transform the ring road into a part of a motorway that connects Warsaw with Belarus.

It was assumed that at the stage I, two roadways each with two traffic lanes and a division lane of 5 m and a reserve of ground at the outer sides for the future third traffic lane would be constructed.



However, at the second stage it was assumed to adjust parameters of this road to the parameters of the future motorway A2 Warsaw – Kukuryki, that is 2x3 traffic lanes with a division lane of 5 m



Provisions concerning stages are to be found also in an environmental decision, in which it was explicitly stated that the investment would be accomplished in stages “(Two stages: 1. Construction of a ring road route. 2. Transformation of the ring road into a section of the A-2 motorway).”



In the decision on determining the location issued in 2008 (Decision no. 1/08 by Masovian Voivode of 4th January 2008 (mark WI.II-7047-D/329/07) provisions on the investment stages were detailed. The first stage was to cover the construction of 2 roadways, 2 traffic lanes each with a division lane of 12,5 m, and only the second stage was to cover the final layout (2 roadways, 3 traffic lanes each) with a division lane of 5 m.



Thanks to actions taken by the General Directorate, for example with respect to environmental protection, there is no threat of losing the EU funds for the accomplishment of road investments. It allows for the achievement of the planned level of the EU funds refund. The effect is visible – for example within the Operational Programme Infrastructure and Environment from the beginning of the Programme accomplishment till the end of April 2012 the European Commission refunded Poland 18.8 billion zlotys.

The General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways did not lose any EU funds, nor subsidising was suspended for any project due to not meeting the environmental protection requirements. It is also true for the S1 road Bielsko-Biała – Cieszyn, in the case of which in negotiations with the European Commission are in process. The result of these negotiations determines passing the final payment by the European Commission.



It stems out of the General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways experience that the transfer of the final payment may take place even 3 years after submitting the application for the final payment.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 02:33 AM   #8164
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A2 + S8 by cementator
Quote:
Originally Posted by cementator View Post
Przejazd Powazkowska - Konotopa - Pruszkow, 2012-05-24



.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cementator View Post
To jeszcze przejazd w drugą stronę, na odcinku Pruszków - Marki, 2012-05-24



.
Photorelation from A2 Strzyków Konotopa by Rusonaldo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusonaldo View Post
Zapraszam na krótką podróż po A2

Udało mi się przejechać cały odcinek. Coś wrzucę większego ale dopiero jutro wieczorem albo w sobotę jak obrbię.















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Old May 25th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #8165
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I hope you're not fed up with A2 yet, here is some astonishing comparison from section A - photos from June 2011 and today (more here):
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Originally Posted by nemeczek View Post


(...)

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Old May 25th, 2012, 04:21 PM   #8166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Are there any decent photos of the new signage leading up to the Konotopa interchange? So far I've only seen videos.
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Originally Posted by PLH View Post
Strange as it may seem, no.
Gazeta has an article about the signage and the name of Konotopa:
http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/1...Konotopa_.html

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Old May 25th, 2012, 04:49 PM   #8167
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Here You have Konotopa signage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusonaldo View Post










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Old May 25th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #8168
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Aha, so no name change to Warszawa-Konotopa, or better; Warszawa-Zachód?
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Old May 25th, 2012, 04:59 PM   #8169
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Aha, so no name change to Warszawa-Konotopa, or better; Warszawa-Zachód?
Unfortunately there is no way to reason with people responsible for this. So for now Konotopa remains Konotopa, the name Warszawa-Zachód (which seems like an OBVIOUS choice for this interchange) was assigned to the "Mory" interchange on S8 (with old DK2).
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Old May 25th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #8170
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MOP on A2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TRWARSZAWA View Post
Jestem na WD270
Kierunek Konotopa

MOP Mogiły, na jezdniach parkingów jest już ścieralna.

Toaleta

Bliżej

Jeszcze bliżej

Prawie w środku

Wchodzę do środka









Do damskiej nie wchodziłem
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Silesia Superior
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Old May 25th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #8171
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S8 Warszawa

The opening dates of S8 through Warszawa.

What will happen to the middle section between Ulica Powązkowska and Ulica Modlińska?

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Old May 25th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #8172
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Tender is underway, it's going to be upgraded to an expressway, including widening of the bridge. This is one of the very few lucky roads that have funding secured.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #8173
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Interesting, how are they going to widen the bridge? It has already 8 lanes with no space to expand. I assume they will construct a new bridge?
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Old May 25th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #8174
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Interesting, how are they going to widen the bridge? It has already 8 lanes with no space to expand. I assume they will construct a new bridge?
Nope. They will replece both 4-lane carriageways using existing pillars.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #8175
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Aha, so basically replacing the entire bridge deck. They did this with one of the longest bridges in the Netherlands in the 1970's. Quite a feat of engineering, which will cause A LOT of traffic disruption no doubt. Luckily there is now the "northern bridge" to detour traffic.

I will check the SISKOM site to see if I can find some designs of this section, it's rather interesting with many interchanges.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 08:51 PM   #8176
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Aha, so basically replacing the entire bridge deck.
The existing steel frame is going to be used, but everything else will be stripped and rebuilt. They plan to do this in 5 phases and finish by the end of 2014:


GDDKiA was very generous with this project and released whole documentation on their FTP
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Old May 25th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #8177
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What is the purpose of the 1260 mm barriers? Will there be four or five lanes in each direction?
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Old May 25th, 2012, 10:56 PM   #8178
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It appears to be a 4x2 setup. 9.55 meters is not enough for 3 lanes.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 11:08 PM   #8179
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It appears to be a 4x2 setup. 9.55 meters is not enough for 3 lanes.
Not expressway-standard lanes, I agree. But then why would the inner pair of lanes be 8.3 meters and the outer pair of lanes 9.55 meters? What is the purpose of the 1.26 meter wide barriers -- unless they are temporary barriers during construction? I note that these barriers are shown remaining on both sides in the final drawing, but perhaps that will not reflect the final state? Also, 1.26 meters seems very wide for a temporary barrier. Why have a 4x2 rather than a 2x4 setup?
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Old May 25th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #8180
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It's going to be a 2x(2+3) layout. Each direction will consist of 2x3,5m lanes for transit (marked as an expressway, on the inside of the bridge) and 3x3,0m lanes for local traffic (on the outside).

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