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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:08 PM   #8281
and802
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Originally Posted by Urbain View Post
In Poland one can see roads that are only a few years old and need to be completely reconstructed, so my question is the following:

Why is it impossible in Poland to build a road without stealing materials or cheating by replacing them with those of bad quality?
what makes you thinking like that ? any statistics you can publish ? most of opinions are based on figures how about yours ?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:25 PM   #8282
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Let's not feed the trolls.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:25 PM   #8283
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what makes you thinking like that ? any statistics you can publish ? most of opinions are based on figures how about yours ?
I drive a lot in Poland, I can only notice the state in which are many of the new and older roads.
It's hard to understand why is it this way, becacuse in other countries I have never seen such things at this scale (except UA and RUS, but they are miles away of being part of the UE).

Last edited by Urbain; June 1st, 2012 at 01:38 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:25 PM   #8284
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what makes you thinking like that ? any statistics you can publish ? most of opinions are based on figures how about yours ?
Here's one of the big (silent) scandal of material stealing on the new motorways and expressways: http://kryminalnamalopolska.pl/plaga...f1da7932010000 - in polish. Many others goes unheard...only when drivers complain about potholes and ruts, 1-2 years after the opening of the road (on many recent roads).
So yes it is a great problem that Poland has to deal with it, instead of hiding it as is currently the case.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:34 PM   #8285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbain View Post
Here's one of the big (silent) scandal of material stealing on the new motorways and expressways: http://kryminalnamalopolska.pl/plaga...f1da7932010000 - in polish. Many others goes unheard...only when drivers complain about potholes and ruts, 1-2 years after the opening of the road (on many recent roads).
So yes it is a great problem that Poland has to deal with it, instead of hiding it as is currently the case.
Nobody is hiding anything - case in point you can read it in papers. To say that EVERY contract is marred by theft and lack of quality disqualifies you right from the start.

With the kind of volume of construction that's currently ongoing in Poland one can almost statistically expect that some people will take advantage of the situation. But it's not a norm, it's an exception to the rule.

GDDkIA has invested heavily in mobile monitoring labs and all companies have security personnel around their sites. Most cases reported were small thefts of fuel or materies - 2/3 guys siphon oil or take few pieces of material for sale. It's not a mafia, not a conspiracy. These idots are apprehended quickly, fired from work and charged.

Lets not make blanket statements.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:05 PM   #8286
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I said it's one of many cases of material stealing, find out yourself!
On other stretches of motorways under construction, the robbery took place by truckloads!

These controls of GDDKIA you talk about only took place recently, and you can still hear of cases of robbery every single day on the papers, if not afterwards. Also, this agency was involved in corruption cases.

Unfortunately, for the great misfortune of motorists and taxpayers, many are still not apprehended. Just look by yourself!

Last edited by Urbain; June 1st, 2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:14 PM   #8287
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This is what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbain View Post

Why is it impossible in Poland to build a road without stealing materials or cheating by replacing them with those of bad quality?
GDDKiA mobile units are for quality control not for theft prevention. Security and police are tasked with safeguarding people and materials.

Once more - either prove to us that every construction suffers from theft and lack of quality or cease and desist from making blanket accusations.

My last two "groszes" on this topic.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:46 PM   #8288
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We are talking about bad quality materials or too low amount of them (robbed) which are directly concerned in quality controls, in case you have forgotten.

Many, if not the majority of new constructions or rebuildings are in a bad sharp or will be soon. Many web pages are devoted to this topic, as well as many papers. However, the best way to see it is to travel around the country. Especially, on stretches which have between 1 and 5 years old.
I keep on telling you: look out by yourself!

What surprises me is that nothing has changed and the mentality remains the same.

Last edited by Urbain; June 1st, 2012 at 02:57 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 03:04 PM   #8289
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You're absolutely right.
Seriously though, stop trolling.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 05:27 PM   #8290
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I also think an S52 wouldn't be a bad idea for east west traffic from Bielsko-Biala to Kraków, and from say Brno/Olomouc to Kraków and points east. The region around DK52 is quite urbanized.
A local community of my home town and surrounding communes have been fighting for this road for a long time. I remember talking about a construction of a motorway-ish road there from my childhood, it was a part of the international corridor E7 back then. Nothing has happened since then (30 years) They still have plans, there are opponents and there is no money or so.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 05:28 PM   #8291
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Maps

Besides the ssc.siskom.waw.pl did the other maps find a new home after Google found the competition too hard?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 05:53 PM   #8292
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Besides the ssc.siskom.waw.pl did the other maps find a new home after Google found the competition too hard?
Other maps are published here (this hosting isn't as reliable as Google though, sometimes it's not working):
http://ssc-mapa.x14.eu/trunk/
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Old June 1st, 2012, 06:39 PM   #8293
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Other maps are published here (this hosting isn't as reliable as Google though, sometimes it's not working):
http://ssc-mapa.x14.eu/trunk/
There is so much people interested in Polish infrastructure so the transfer limit run out too fast.

Now that hosting is obsolete. Map authors dispersed and now you can find maps there:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png by IgorSel

http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ well-known map with new features

http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/mapa-nawier...awierzchni.png roads condition map
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Old June 1st, 2012, 06:40 PM   #8294
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Would you guys think that when the whole of A1 is finished there will be much more shipping done through Gdańsk?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 07:11 PM   #8295
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Would you guys think that when the whole of A1 is finished there will be much more shipping done through Gdańsk?
I expect more shipping through Gdansk after the A1 has been completed. I don't know how much more and I don't know how more you would classify as "much more".
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Old June 1st, 2012, 07:16 PM   #8296
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It would help if they made the Wisła navigable for shipping and dug a canal to the Silesian industrial area. Bulk goods are best transported by ship. Compare: Duisburg - Rotterdam. Water transport has potential in Poland.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 07:20 PM   #8297
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Unfortunately Wisła is in terrible condition, it would require huge investments to make it navigable for large cargo ships, I don't think it's even economically feasible considering the competition (existing and planned railways and roads).

In other news - A1 from Pyrzowice all the way to Świerklany is now open. Upper Silesian Industrial Region now has an almost full A+S ring. S1 on the north is 1x2 and there is a 7km section not in expressway standard, but still - pretty close to being a ring
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Old June 1st, 2012, 07:38 PM   #8298
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Unfortunately Wisła is in terrible condition, it would require huge investments to make it navigable for large cargo ships, I don't think it's even economically feasible considering the competition (existing and planned railways and roads).
Small feeder cargo ships would be fine. 75 meter long 100 TEU capacity would be adequate.

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In other news - A1 from Pyrzowice all the way to Świerklany is now open. Upper Silesian Industrial Region now has an almost full A+S ring. S1 on the north is 1x2 and there is a 7km section not in expressway standard, but still - pretty close to being a ring
Excellent!
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Old June 1st, 2012, 08:50 PM   #8299
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It would help if they made the Wisła navigable for shipping and dug a canal to the Silesian industrial area. Bulk goods are best transported by ship. Compare: Duisburg - Rotterdam. Water transport has potential in Poland.
Odra is navigable till almost the Czech border. There were huge plans for Oder-Danube navigation going on in the beggining of the last century. Luckily for one village only plans .

I meant more some of the Chineese goods for Eastern Europe being unloaded in Gdansk instead of Rotterdam. Not the bulk cargo.

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I don't know how much more and I don't know how more you would classify as "much more".
Double?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 08:55 PM   #8300
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In other news - A1 from Pyrzowice all the way to Świerklany is now open. Upper Silesian Industrial Region now has an almost full A+S ring. S1 on the north is 1x2 and there is a 7km section not in expressway standard, but still - pretty close to being a ring
Thats great. Any news about Mszana? Are they going to do some temporary setup for the Euro?
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