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Old June 10th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #8481
ChrisZwolle
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A motorway has a much higher capacity than 40.000 or 50.000 vehicles per day. Sure, it's not empty then, but there are many 2x2 motorways that carry even more than 80.000 vehicles per day. We even have some 2x2 motorways that carry over 100.000 vehicles per day in the Netherlands.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #8482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I myself was more surprised with the S6/S7 interchange. It's a trumpet with the loop in the wrong direction (the heaviest flow). It would have made more sense to mirror the trumpet, so that Gdynia > Elbląg and vice versa traffic can maintain the highest speed.
You remember the OMT beltway from a couple pages back? It's supposed to be connected to S7 at that interchange so it's going to have to be rebuilt anyway. This will also greatly influence the distribution of traffic in that whole area, so there's really no point in worrying about that trumpet right now. Here's a picture of that interchange, as it is planned:

Personally , I believe that OMT has a chance of being built within the next 10 years.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #8483
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I agree. It would be quite expensive for a temporary solution that arguably is not even as good as the current state of affairs.




5 hours would be a relaxed pace. 4 hours might be possible if you're aggressive.
Who's the idiot that put a speed limit of 70 km/h on almost half the way from Gr. Maz. to Lodz (The national road 2 with it 100 km/h speed limit is way more dangerous)? This road is easily passable at 120 km/h even if they are small bumps. Is it to allow the police from getting a "turnpike" before the tolls are in place?
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Old June 10th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #8484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A motorway has a much higher capacity than 40.000 or 50.000 vehicles per day. Sure, it's not empty then, but there are many 2x2 motorways that carry even more than 80.000 vehicles per day. We even have some 2x2 motorways that carry over 100.000 vehicles per day in the Netherlands.
And you know the effect....bumper against bumper .
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Old June 10th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #8485
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Originally Posted by Urbain View Post
False.

A four lane motorway, has a maximum capacity of 40-50k vehicules per day (If traffic rides on both lanes). (...) Not talking about rush hour in Three City, which left hundreds of thousands vehicles at the same moment, and you get a real road block, surely also on the new road .

Have you ever been once in Gdansk?

The existing route that lead to the S6 is already fully blocked in rush hours.
The new S7 will work as an alternative route, so in a few years it will be completely saturated and they will need to enlarge it.
Surely, you must have never been to Tricity, or else you would know that the current S6 with over 50k vehicles per day on almost all sections, is only "blocked" when an accident happens.
I find that road rather relaxing to drive on, even in dense traffic in the middle of the day, most of the time the right lane will be going at around 90-100 km/hr with the left lane at about 120 km/hr, which is a very good result for rush hour traffic if you ask me.
One thing that would be more helpful in improving traffic flow there (on the S6), is not a third lane but a full emergency lane. Trust me, we really don't have to worry about a third lane on S7 for atleast 20 years.

Last edited by jeremiash; June 10th, 2012 at 06:43 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #8486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbain View Post
False.

A four lane motorway, has a maximum capacity of 40-50k vehicules per day (If traffic rides on both lanes).
Maybe you mean per direction?

edit: no wait you didn't, you were just spouting nonsense

The theoretical maximum lane-hour capacity is somewhere just over 2000 (which will probably be more in real-life conditions), times four lanes and let's say 12 hrs per day for an average of half of road capacity used per 24 hrs. That's 96.000 vehicles which will mean there's going to be heavy congestion during peak hours but still way more than 40-50k and free-flow for 20 hours per day (barring accidents or bad weather).

Last edited by Koesj; June 10th, 2012 at 06:46 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #8487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koesj View Post
Maybe you mean per direction?

edit: no wait you didn't, you were just spouting nonsense

The theoretical maximum lane-hour capacity is somewhere just over 2000 (which will probably be more in real-life conditions), times four lanes and let's say 12 hrs per day for an average of half of road capacity used per 24 hrs. That's 96.000 vehicles which will mean there's going to be heavy congestion during peak hours but still way more than 40-50k and free-flow for 20 hours per day (barring accidents or bad weather).
It is purely theoretical, only if traffic was the same all the day long. But it never happens. Therefore, it is commonly accepted that a four lane motorway has a maximum daily capacity of about 40 to 60k vehicles on plain and rolling terrain, depending on the level of comfort and the urbanization of the area.

Three City is a very popular tourist destination (from all over Poland and abroad). In summer, the City can double its capacity.

When you look at the traffic in Three City, you can see that they are only two roads to transit the cities, the first one is a city street which is almost crowded, the second one, 10km in the north of Gdansk is the four-lanes S6 Three City bypass. The roads that leads to the bypass (and not the bypass itself) are always crowded in rush hour. The new S7 is an alternative route that lead to the S6 .

Last edited by Urbain; June 10th, 2012 at 09:24 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #8488
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With S7 now open near Gdansk, what are the current routings of E75, E77, and E28?
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Old June 10th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #8489
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Quote:
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And you know the effect....bumper against bumper .
Nothing wrong with that imho . Means a road is fully used rather than jammed up because people try to keep silly big distances.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 11:33 PM   #8490
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Nothing wrong with that imho . Means a road is fully used rather than jammed up because people try to keep silly big distances.
And the 2 seconds rule in that ? If someone brakes hardly it might result in a big smash . I personally have seen one were 80 cars were involved and it was terrible.

Last edited by Urbain; June 10th, 2012 at 11:45 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #8491
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What's the latest on the A1 Mszana Bridge in southern Poland? I've read something about a reinforcement and a opening in August 2013, but here it's listed as late July 2012.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 12:08 AM   #8492
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And the 2 seconds rule in that ? If someone brakes hardly it might result in a big smash . I personally have seen one were 80 cars were involved and it was terrible.
To hell with the 2 second rule (it's not a rule but a recommendation), the average in Holland is 1.5 second. That is an AVERAGE, this means that 1 second is easily accepted.

Police fine for staying less than half a second behind someone for at least 30 seconds...

If everyone would try to keep 2 second distance we'd have MASSIVE traffic jams in every place a road joins the motorway.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #8493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbain View Post
It is purely theoretical, only if traffic was the same all the day long. But it never happens. Therefore, it is commonly accepted that a four lane motorway has a maximum daily capacity of about 40 to 60k vehicles on plain and rolling terrain, depending on the level of comfort and the urbanization of the area.

Ruhrgebiet:
A40 near Bochum: 109.573 vpd
A43 near Herne: 98.904 vpd
A565 near Bonn-Beuel: 96.784 vpd

Randstad:
A1 near Blaricum: 109.280 vpd
A2 near Culemborg: 113.960 vpd
A4 near Hoogmade: 105.179 vpd
A12 near Bleiswijk: 100.055 vpd

All 2005 workday figures

Yes, these are roads where traffic will be the same for long parts of the day: too busy. And no, it'll not be comfortable.

But your claim that its 'purely theoretical'? Nonsense.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 02:28 AM   #8494
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South bypass of Gdańsk

http://trojmiasto.tv/Przejazd-poludn...nska-3264.html
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Old June 11th, 2012, 03:56 AM   #8495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What's the latest on the A1 Mszana Bridge in southern Poland? I've read something about a reinforcement and a opening in August 2013, but here it's listed as late July 2012.
The local building inspector gave Polish Road Authority time until August 2013 to correct the bridge. They will have to strengthen bottom of the bridge concrete box as well as add some external tension cables outside the concrete superstructure. He blamed mistakes during construction but in such a way which suggest that project wasn't good in the first place because it gave too small tolerances.
The problem is that Alpina thinks that Road Authority should pay for the new project and extra works while Road Authority thinks Alpina should pay.
In short. It is a fu**ing mess.
This whole strange bridge was a mistake from the beginning. They should use some standard "off the shelf" bridge design and motorway to my hometown would be finished long ago. I'm seriously pissed off with this project blunder.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #8496
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Better version :

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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #8497
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The local building inspector gave Polish Road Authority time until August 2013 to correct the bridge. They will have to strengthen bottom of the bridge concrete box as well as add some external tension cables outside the concrete superstructure. He blamed mistakes during construction but in such a way which suggest that project wasn't good in the first place because it gave too small tolerances.
The problem is that Alpina thinks that Road Authority should pay for the new project and extra works while Road Authority thinks Alpina should pay.
In short. It is a fu**ing mess.
This whole strange bridge was a mistake from the beginning. They should use some standard "off the shelf" bridge design and motorway to my hometown would be finished long ago. I'm seriously pissed off with this project blunder.
Isn't there any alternative discussed doing the job temporarily? Because of this single bridge there are 25 kms of finished fine motorway waiting to be used.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #8498
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So it is likely that the viaduct at Mszana will be repaired and strengthened and safe to use so that the entire A1 between Świerklany and the
Polish/Czech border can be opened to traffic in late July 2012?
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Old June 11th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #8499
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So it is likely that the viaduct at Mszana will be repaired and strengthened and safe to use so that the entire A1 between Świerklany and the
Polish/Czech border can be opened to traffic in late July 2012?
Very unlikely, I'd say even impossible. If Alpine starts working right away, I believe it's possible to have the bridge open before this year ends. But the works won't commence unless GDDKiA and Alpine start working together, and right now they do all the talking through media and their lawyers, there doesn't seem to be any constructive dialogue going on.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #8500
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Very unlikely, I'd say even impossible. If Alpine starts working right away, I believe it's possible to have the bridge open before this year ends. But the works won't commence unless GDDKiA and Alpine start working together, and right now they do all the talking through media and their lawyers, there doesn't seem to be any constructive dialogue going on.
Exactly, it is absolutely impossible to finish it in less than few months. In the best conditions. First they have to work out the precise correction design and then implement it.
And then there are all the lawyers.....
Darkness, I see darkness....
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