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Old June 18th, 2012, 03:21 AM   #8541
geogregor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
i'm very impressed by the progress Poland has made in building a highway infrastructure. Drove on a number of roads last year and was very impressed by quality of construction, design and maintenance, best of all Polish officials are building roadway infrastructure within their financial means, not bankrupting the country just to impress the Germans or someone else. I saw some potholes that were patched and maybe a few that needed patching, but I could show you many roads in Canada that are badly potholed. We have no one to impress or compete with but ourselves, we know what needs doing and we know what our priorities are and what we can afford. If people steal, well that's an old tradition rooted in Communist era frustration, poverty and injustice that is dying out. My cousins stole bricks for their house because they coudln't buy any to finish their house for years. I'm looking forward to seeing the entire A4 and A1 Gdansk to Lodz completed this year. It would be resally good if the link to Czech on the A1 is done soon too, I drive into Czech from Krakow a fair bit.
Neither A1 nor A4 will be finished this year, there is no slightest chance. I do agree, to a large degree, with your statement that situation is much better than during the depth of communism, but one shouldn't overlook obvious incompetence and bad management on many road projects. It often leads to massive delays. A4 east of Krakow should be mostly finished by now, similarly A1 north of Lodz. How they look you can check on the relevant Polish threads. And don't let me even start to moan about the fricking bridge in Mszana. How about S69 to Zywiec? Also delayed.
There is a lot we can improve as we still need plenty of new modern roads to catch up with European average density.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 05:25 AM   #8542
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thanks for the clarification, but I still think POland having built over 2,000 km of road in less than 10 years is amazing, if not monumental...and take into account Poland's relative wealth or the lack thereof even today and the fact that maybe up to 1 million skilled Poles left for the UK, Germany and France after entry into EU post 2004. The Poles that remained have muddled through quite well and with enough prodding and the return of maybe a few thousand skilled Poles to maintain, maybe things will get even better. I just get ticked when Poles who no longer live in the country or contribute to its development, financially or otherwise come onto these sites and trash the achievements of those who have remained.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 10:28 AM   #8543
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Delays are very common in any major project in Europe, nothing to worry about. Even with delays, Polish motorway construction is MUCH faster than for example in Germany.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #8544
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Delays are very common in any major project in Europe, nothing to worry about. Even with delays, Polish motorway construction is MUCH faster than for example in Germany.
Germany now, but when Germany was building bulk of their network in sixties and seventies they were opening more motorways a year than we do now. I've seen table somewhere, maybe even posted by you, but can't find it now.
To be fair, back then amount of ridiculous rules from Brussels was much smaller.

Don't take me wrong, I'm happy because all the progress we did, but many things could be done better.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #8545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
i'm very impressed by the progress Poland has made in building a highway infrastructure. Drove on a number of roads last year and was very impressed by quality of construction, design and maintenance, best of all Polish officials are building roadway infrastructure within their financial means, not bankrupting the country just to impress the Germans or someone else. I saw some potholes that were patched and maybe a few that needed patching, but I could show you many roads in Canada that are badly potholed. We have no one to impress or compete with but ourselves, we know what needs doing and we know what our priorities are and what we can afford. If people steal, well that's an old tradition rooted in Communist era frustration, poverty and injustice that is dying out. My cousins stole bricks for their house because they coudln't buy any to finish their house for years. I'm looking forward to seeing the entire A4 and A1 Gdansk to Lodz completed this year. It would be resally good if the link to Czech on the A1 is done soon too, I drive into Czech from Krakow a fair bit.
Recondition national roads and will be well.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 06:53 PM   #8546
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^ i dont mind that some of the things could be done better... As Chris wrote we are doing quite well. What I do mind we have not got any clarified national programme for 2015-2020. Could be something, or could be nothing at all. I do no want to celebrate opening of altogether 100 km of new motorways in years 2015-2020.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #8547
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^ i dont mind that some of the things could be done better... As Chris wrote we are doing quite well. What I do mind we have not got any clarified national programme for 2015-2020. Could be something, or could be nothing at all. I do no want to celebrate opening of altogether 100 km of new motorways in years 2015-2020.
We are supposed to construct aproximately 1000 km. motorways/expresways in 2014-2020, so it is around 150 km. per year
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Old June 18th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #8548
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We are supposed to construct aproximately 1000 km. motorways/expresways in 2014-2020, so it is around 150 km. per year
Beck's, if this is truth I will join your fan-club...

but please be more specifis, which routes were on you mind ?
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Old June 18th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #8549
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Beck's, if this is truth I will join your fan-club...

but please be more specifis, which routes were on you mind ?
I am on mind all S7 from Cracow to Gdańsk(apart from the bypass of Kielce-underconstructed now and south bypass of Gdańsk-exist now), S8 from Warsaw to Białystok, S17 from Warsaw to Lublin, S5 from Wrocław to Poznań and A1 from Pyrzowice to Piotrków. You can also find some more information here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=184
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Old June 19th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #8550
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A1 near Łódź:

[IMG]http://i50.************/140glci.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 19th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #8551
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Where exactly near Łódż is this stretch of the A1? Is it part of the stretch between Kowal and Stryków which is supposed to open in July?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 04:52 PM   #8552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris80678 View Post
Where exactly near Łódż is this stretch of the A1?
Here, looking north:
http://goo.gl/maps/9e9K
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #8553
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I was wondering why the city of Łódź was left out in highway construction for a long time. While most larger Polish cities either had motorways or somewhat developed arterial road networks, Łódź had almost nothing for a long time, it has only one or two grade-separated interchanges. With Łódź being Poland's second largest city for some time, this surprised me.

Łódź was also not on a major road junction, DK1/DK2 was further north and DK1/DK8 further south, leaving Łódź with some less important national roads. Even A2 nowadays hardly serves Łódź itself.

So what's up with Łódź?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #8554
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Oh I was hoping it would be part of the A1 Kowal to Stryków stretch as it is due to open to traffic this year
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #8555
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The smaller road that is perpendicular to the A1 is a road connecting Stryków and Głowno if it tells you anything I should rather say that the photo was taken near Stryków but let it be as it is
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:17 PM   #8556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So what's up with Łódź?
Łódź has most of it's outer ring either ready or U/C - A2 on the north, A1 on the east, S8 on the south, part of S14 on the west. I'd say GDDKiA invested more into roads around Łódź than any other city (well, unless you count the whole Upper Silesian Industrial Region). The problem is that those roads (will) mostly benefit through traffic, not people living in the urban area of Łódź.

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Oh I was hoping it would be part of the A1 Kowal to Stryków stretch as it is due to open to traffic this year
But... it is. This is northern part of ex-Stryków interchange (now called Łódź Północ). Everything north of the DK14 (visible on the photo) is part of the Stryków-Piątek contract, which is a section of Kowal-Stryków stretch. The whole stretch to Kowal won't be ready anytime soon though, because the middle section is delayed due to bankruptcy of the main contractor.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:25 PM   #8557
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Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Łódź has most of it's outer ring either ready or U/C - A2 on the north, A1 on the east, S8 on the south, part of S14 on the west. I'd say GDDKiA invested more into roads around Łódź than any other city (well, unless you count the whole Upper Silesian Industrial Region). The problem is that those roads (will) mostly benefit through traffic, not people living in the urban area of Łódź.
Yes, now. But why not in the past? I think Łódź was the most left-out city of Poland. Warszawa at least had many interchanges, Łódź had only two of them. Was there a special reason or is Łódź just a weirdly located city? Romania has such a "second city" as well (Iași).
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #8558
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For the last 50 years lack of large road investments funded by the government was a rule, rather than an exception. I really don't think Łódź was left-out or ignored in investment plans. I don't know, maybe someone from Łódź can give their perspective.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #8559
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These pics are a bit worse in terms of quality and angle of the picture but still you can see something.

South of Kutno, also A1:

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Dzięki Więcej mam spod Kutna, znaczy trzy fotki jeszcze, bo akurat moja traska nie wiodła nad samym śladem autostrady, tylko miałem odcinek od Głowna do Kutna, także jeszcze trzy zdjęcia takie, prawda, z boku

[IMG]http://i45.************/2yullzl.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.************/25yvxph.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.************/24exv2d.jpg[/IMG]

Południowe okolice Kutna.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #8560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Warszawa at least had many interchanges, Łódź had only two of them.
Do not compare to Warszawa - the capital was always a "shopping window" of every communist country. Compare to Kraków or Wrocław. How many interchanges pre-dating 1990 you can count in those cities?

And it's not wise to go into that discussion, because in polish forums it always becomes so heated, that it ends up with several brigs and bans... (city vs city)
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