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Old June 24th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #8581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz18 View Post
Well, you have to consider, that not Poland is financing the constructions of highways in Poland out of its own tax-payer budget, but the EU provides the funding.
The same was in Spain and Portugal. Theese countries had highways funded by the European Union as well.
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Old June 24th, 2012, 04:29 PM   #8582
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When can we expect some more definitive data about the upcoming highway funding period?
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Old June 24th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #8583
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My guess would be somewhere in winter, assuming we will know how much road money there will be in the 2014-2020 cohesion fund for Poland by then.
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Old June 24th, 2012, 05:23 PM   #8584
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
When can we expect some more definitive data about the upcoming highway funding period?
Our minister of transport said the plan for the next perspective should be announced in the coming weeks, I guess probably after Euro 2012 ends and emotions cool down.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #8585
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Drove on the S7 up here in Gdansk a few times already, its a nice road! Very proud of my country!
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Old June 25th, 2012, 03:57 AM   #8586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz18 View Post
Well, you have to consider, that not Poland is financing the constructions of highways in Poland out of its own tax-payer budget, but the EU provides the funding. So EU contributers like Germany or Norway finance the construction of the Polish highway and road system. So for instance the A2 from the German border to Nowy Tomyśl which cost 6 billion Zloty was financied by 62,5 % from the EIB (European Investment Bank = EU), 25,5 by private banks and 12 % by shareholders of the AWSA (autostrada wielkopolska company). For the construction of the A2 the branch AWSA II was founded, which has - besides others - also the German construction company Strabag and the KWM Investment Bank as owners. And exactly the German Strabag AG was the General builder of the highway, thats why the A2 looks like all the other highways the Strabag built in Germany in the last years.
First of all EU funding is not 100%, as you have mentioned. About 30% has to be financed directly from Polish taxes.

And it's deeply unfair what you suggest that these remaining 70% of funding is from Germany etc.

It's true that Poland benefits from EU funding and we get more than we pay. But it's not true that these EU funds are just a kind of gift.

From 2004 to 2011 Poland obtained about 50 mld Euro.
Quite a lot. But at the same time Polish contribution to EU was about 20 mld Euro.

So, 40% of these EU funds were actually collected from Polish tax-payers.

Theoretically A2 = 30% of the Polish tax + 28% of Polish participation in EU funds + 42% of the actual gift from other EU countries.

And let's be honest. These 42% will go back to Germany immediately as Strabag is German company.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 04:33 AM   #8587
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And let's be honest. These 42% will go back to Germany immediately as Strabag is German company.
Not quite. Most of that money is spent by Strabag in Poland on construction expenses, including paying subcontractors and buying materials. Only the profits (perhaps about 10% of the 42% or about 4% of the total) plus maybe payments for some equipment manufactured in Germany would go back to Germany immediately.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 09:08 AM   #8588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz18 View Post
Well, you have to consider, that not Poland is financing the constructions of highways in Poland out of its own tax-payer budget, but the EU provides the funding. So EU contributers like Germany or Norway
You mean Denmark and Netherlands? Germans love to say that they contribute most of the EU budget, but it's simply a manipulation. Most - per capita - is submitted by those countries above.

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Originally Posted by Fritz18 View Post
For the construction of the A2 the branch AWSA II was founded, which has - besides others - also the German construction company Strabag and the KWM Investment Bank as owners. And exactly the German Strabag AG was the General builder of the highway, thats why the A2 looks like all the other highways the Strabag built in Germany in the last years.
This is not even arrogance, this is typical German self-indulgent crap. Why do so many Germans still think that Germany matters so much on the international scene?

Last edited by LMB; June 25th, 2012 at 09:26 AM. Reason: shortened
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Old June 25th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #8589
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Not quite. Most of that money is spent by Strabag in Poland on construction expenses, including paying subcontractors and buying materials. Only the profits (perhaps about 10% of the 42% or about 4% of the total) plus maybe payments for some equipment manufactured in Germany would go back to Germany immediately.
And should I believe that Strabag managers, employees are non profit? Do they work for free? Doesn't their salaries go back to Germany?

This 4% is only EBIT. To be honest you should say 5,6% (Strabag EBIDTA for 2011) as they pay taxes in Germany.

But much, much more money flows directly back to EU. I'm pretty sure that while they have 5.6 % EBIDTA for entire company their profit on transportation investments in Poland is much, much higher.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #8590
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And should I believe that Strabag managers, employees are non profit? Do they work for free? Doesn't their salaries go back to Germany?
Most of the managers end employees in Polish arm of Strabag are probably Polish, so their salaries stay in Poland
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Old June 25th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #8591
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This is not even arrogance, this is typical German self-indulgent crap. Why do so many Germans still think that Germany matters so much on the international scene?
Maybe because they do??
At the moment it looks like all the Euro zone is begging Germans to splash some cash.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #8592
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Most of the managers end employees in Polish arm of Strabag are probably Polish, so their salaries stay in Poland
Yes, and even the few German employees are mostly living in Poland during the contract and spending a large part of their salaries in Poland and paying Polish rather than German income taxes while working in Poland.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #8593
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There is a chance that the A2 will be open on section C, but the interchange with DK50 (used to be called Wiskitki, official exit name Żyrardów) will not be open. Check back before you leave...
I wish to check now considering I will be leaving for Poland this Saturday. I'll drive from the German border (A2) to Radom. My original idea was to exit the A2 at the interchange with the DK50 if it's open. Does anyone know if this interchange is open already and if not, what route do you suggest I take?
Simply take one earlier exit near Skierniewice and then head south to the S8 from which I can follow the S8 till Grojec and then take the S7 south? Or anyone has any other ideas?
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Old June 25th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #8594
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The A2 interchanche with DK50 is clossed. I think You should drive this way : http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,26...647dbf0be7cc2a
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Old June 25th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #8595
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That's exactly what I had in mind Dziekuje bardzo
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #8596
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http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,26...647dbf0be7cc2a

Interesting that on this website (targeo.pl) they show the A1 between Kowal and Łódż Południe (A2), the S8 Zambrów bypass, the
S7 Pasłęk - Miłomyn as all being open when they are not yet ready to be opened to traffic and yet www.zumi.pl doesn't even show the recently opened motorways/expressways which targeo.pl does i.e. A2 Łódż Południe - Warszawa, A1 Zabrze Północ - Pyrzowice, S11 Dąbrówka - A2, S5 Gnieżno - A2, S7 Gdańsk southern bypass

Last edited by Chris80678; June 27th, 2012 at 02:35 PM.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #8597
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I think the most actual is this website: http://mapa.ump.waw.pl/ump-www/ . Zumi pl hasn`t update for some months, on the other side targeo.pl is to much predictable
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Old June 28th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #8598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Yes, and even the few German employees are mostly living in Poland during the contract and spending a large part of their salaries in Poland and paying Polish rather than German income taxes while working in Poland.
As long as the money stays within EU, I'm not bothered. I was bothered when Chinese company tried to build some roads in Poland (to show how great they are) but not only they didn't deliver on time, but they have been so bad that GDDKiA canceled the contract.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 01:51 AM   #8599
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As long as the money stays within EU, I'm not bothered. I was bothered when Chinese company tried to build some roads in Poland (to show how great they are) but not only they didn't deliver on time, but they have been so bad that GDDKiA canceled the contract.
Even when some of the EU subsidy money makes it to China, the consequence is that the Chinese have more euros and it becomes more attractive and affordable for them to buy EU products (for example, Airbus airliners or Audi cars).
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Old June 29th, 2012, 06:53 PM   #8600
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S69 Bielsko-Biala - Zywiec by Marek Kocjan

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Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-77.html

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