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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:50 PM   #9361
mako22
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How did you even come across the idea that S8 Suwalki - Augustow - Bialystok is going to be build in near future? The project has been abandoned and there are absolutely no plans to upgrade the road to expressway standards.
In 2008 "Scott&Wilson" has proved that S61 will be more economically-efficient, and environmental-friendly than S8 Bialystok - Suwalki and therefore, since since 2009, S61 has been officially accepted by the government.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 08:40 PM   #9362
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http://rzeszow.gazeta.pl/rzeszow/1,3...arpathia_.html

Btw, you're from Ełk so I don't expect you to be unbiased
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 04:54 AM   #9363
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Just a newspaper. Was affraid it was some more reliable source of information
I actually don't see any chance ViaCarpatia would be built withing next 15-20 years. Traffic north to Lublin is fairly low and budget is not getting bigger. Hopefully one will be able to drive from Slovakia to Lithuania via S19-S17-S8-S61 sooner than entire S19 corridor will be upgraded.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 09:04 AM   #9364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mako22 View Post
I actually don't see any chance ViaCarpatia would be built withing next 15-20 years. Traffic north to Lublin is fairly low and budget is not getting bigger. Hopefully one will be able to drive from Slovakia to Lithuania via S19-S17-S8-S61 sooner than entire S19 corridor will be upgraded.
I don't see any chance of getting as far as funding approval for the Via Carpathia in the next 20 years. Heck, there is not even a reasonable route for traffic between Vienna/Bratislava/Budapest and Warsaw yet (let alone the Baltics) and it seems there will not be one during this decade (though progress toward it will continue). Worrying about traffic between Kosice/Presov and the Baltics seems like worrying about fraying ends on the hairs on a gnat's testicle. I guess AADT for traffic between eastern Slovakia and the Baltics is probably between 0 and 1.

2x2 S8 from Bialystok to Suwalki would not make my list of top 100 priorities for Polish roads. Even 2x2 S22 from Kostrzyn to Elblag should, in my opinion, be a higher priority (though not in the top 50). Has anyone noticed that the S7 between Warsaw and Krakow is nowhere near completion???

S61 is the only 2x2 road Poland needs to build to the LT border. When Lithuania completes upgrading to 2x2 the A4 from Vilnius to Alytus and begins construction of the 2x2 extension to Lazdijai, then we can talk about a 2x2 road from Bialystok to the LT border.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 01:20 PM   #9365
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Even if Baltic traffic to south Poland, Ukraine and further south isn't important (which I think it is in the long term), even if connections to/from the largest city in the region (Bialystok) are not important (which I think they are), even if the connection to another to-be international transport corridor is not important (which I think it is), what I am sure you will agree is important is the fact that the Bialystok - Suwalki section needs 60km. less of new expressways (once the S8 is complete). 60km. is a huge number. As you mentioned, there are lots of more important sections that aren't even completed. What you are proposing is essentially building an extra 60 km. to save 40km. in the middle of nowhere, and that is day dreaming.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 01:32 PM   #9366
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I think the main disadvantage for S19 is that there is a circa 220 kilometer stretch between Białystok and Lublin with no cities of any significance in between while transit traffic is not very high (yet).
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 11:35 PM   #9367
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Quote:
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What you are proposing is essentially building an extra 60 km. to save 40km. in the middle of nowhere, and that is day dreaming.
It's not my proposal. It's the official plan to build 60km of road once to save 40km about a million times per year.

How many kilometers were cut from the Warsaw - Lodz route by building about 90km of A2?
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 03:56 AM   #9368
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It's not my proposal. It's the official plan to build 60km of road once to save 40km about a million times per year.

How many kilometers were cut from the Warsaw - Lodz route by building about 90km of A2?
And where has this amazing plan of building this amazing connection taken us so far, when Poland was experiencing the biggest road building spree in recent European history? How many sections of expressway have been built on this road, and how many of them are planned in the near future?

Face it, this route is a plan B route that was drawn just because Bialystok - Suwalki became unviable due to environmental concerns. They probably drew it just to make Lithuanians and the Suwalki region happy, the reality is that this 'plan' might as well not exist as it will never get any financing. If those environmental concerns for the Bialystok - Suwalki route are gone, I'm sure they will redraw the original E67 which is the only one that has any chances of getting built.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 04:17 AM   #9369
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Wow, Polish road building made it all the way to Chicago Tribune.
I'm impressed.
Well there are about 2 million Polish people in Chicago so it makes sense.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 12:14 PM   #9370
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Well there are about 2 million Polish people in Chicago so it makes sense.
200 thousands. One zero less.
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Old December 25th, 2012, 04:02 AM   #9371
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Quote:
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And where has this amazing plan of building this amazing connection taken us so far, when Poland was experiencing the biggest road building spree in recent European history? How many sections of expressway have been built on this road, and how many of them are planned in the near future?
The question is how many km would have been build if it was traced via Bialystok. If we consider Bialystok - Suwalki of S8 and Ostrow Maz - Suwalki of S61 sections, I am pretty sure it would be exactly as many as S61 sections have been build so far ... 0 km. Truth is there are more important roads in Poland which need to be upgraded in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Face it, this route is a plan B route that was drawn just because Bialystok - Suwalki became unviable due to environmental concerns. They probably drew it just to make Lithuanians and the Suwalki region happy, the reality is that this 'plan' might as well not exist as it will never get any financing.
And again. I really doubt that Polish Gorvernment cares so much about the Lithuanians. Especially recently. Suwalki have been waiting for expressway bypass and it seems that they're not going to get it any soon as well.

S61 is not only to support transit to Baltic Countries but also to provide better connection with the Capital and pretty common tourist destinations in north-eastern Poland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
If those environmental concerns for the Bialystok - Suwalki route are gone, I'm sure they will redraw the original E67 which is the only one that has any chances of getting built.
How are they supposed to be gone?
S8 Bialystok-Suwalki section would have to cross Biebrzanski National Park and since there's alternate route (S61) there's no chance that DK8 will be upgraded to expressway standard putting all the heavy traffic through the national park. It's neither reasonable nor necessary.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 11:09 PM   #9372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mako22 View Post
The question is how many km would have been build if it was traced via Bialystok. If we consider Bialystok - Suwalki of S8 and Ostrow Maz - Suwalki of S61 sections, I am pretty sure it would be exactly as many as S61 sections have been build so far ... 0 km. Truth is there are more important roads in Poland which need to be upgraded in the first place.
If the route was going through Bialystok and all the Baltic traffic was shifted there (easy to do), then the combined AADT would've be much higher than AADT of S61 alone and so the chances of getting financing for improvement would've been significantly higher. What is there not to understand?

Quote:
How are they supposed to be gone?
I am saying that based on the news article about Via Carpathia. If those concerns aren't gone then fair enough, let's leave the S61 plan as it is and not build anything in the region for another 20 years, however, if those concerns are gone then the E67 should go through the Suwalki - Bialystok section.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 05:25 AM   #9373
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Quote:
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If the route was going through Bialystok and all the Baltic traffic was shifted there (easy to do), then the combined AADT would've be much higher than AADT of S61 alone and so the chances of getting financing for improvement would've been significantly higher. What is there not to understand?
Your statement is not even internally consistent. After the S61 will be built, all the Baltic traffic will not be shifted to detour through Bialystok, so your hypothetical AADT comparison makes no sense.

If you're looking for an argument against S61, it would be less far-fetched to argue that the Via Baltica should run Berlin - Kostrzyn - Elblag - Koenigsberg - Taurage - Siauliai - Jelgava - Riga - Tallinn - Helsinki. That won't happen anytime soon (for political reasons) but at least it wouldn't involve a ridiculous 40km detour.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #9374
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Is there any chance of the A4 between the Jarosław and Radymno exits opening to traffic before the end of 2012?
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Old December 27th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #9375
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None. First, they planned to open before the end of the year but the plans have changed. I hope they will open A4 in January.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #9376
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Trasa Sucharskiego, Gdańsk

The southern part of the harbor expressway opened in Gdańsk today.

The boortunnel in aanleg part means "bored tunnel under construction".

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Old December 29th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #9377
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That is excellent news. From now on this route improves access from A1/S7 to the port and industrial areas of Gdansk. After finishing work on tunnel north part of Gdansk will benefit having easy and convenient access to S7. Wondering how long it takes to build that tunnel.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #9378
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from the GDDKiA's facebok site

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Old December 30th, 2012, 12:48 PM   #9379
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S12/S17 route (section from Piaski to Lublin). Not finished yet, speed limits are temporary.

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Old January 1st, 2013, 05:12 PM   #9380
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2012 - summary:

- over 700km of new motorways and expressways completed
- 1365,8km - motorways in use,
- 1067,4km - expressways in use.

Source : GDDKiA
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