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Old January 6th, 2013, 03:21 PM   #9401
Sasza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orionol View Post
But it is a important road, am I right?
It connects Northern Germany + Berlin + Denmark to Southern Poland?
It's not important. Traffic volume is low so even one line would be enough. There are two good connections (A2 and A4) with Germany so for a while we have much more important roads to build.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #9402
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Originally Posted by Orionol View Post
When will the Autostrada A18 be build or when will anything happen to A18? I drove there last year and this road is in a critical condition. It is truly one of Poland's worst roads!!!

It gives people a bad thought of Polish roads, when they enter Poland from Germany.
honestly saying I do not take special care of what other nations think of Poland. we have got a lot of urgent needs and this particular route is out of that scope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orionol View Post
But it is a important road, am I right?
It connects Northern Germany + Berlin + Denmark to Southern Poland?
once we integrate our own country, then we will be thinking of small nations like representatives of Denmark. Orionol, do not take it personally, this is a kind of joke, but in fact tells you where we are at present.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #9403
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Okay, I understand. But still when you drive towards Wroclaw/Krakow via A18, you drive on the bad one , because I know that the road to Berlin in A18 is good enough but its the other way. Why dont they do a 1+1 road on the good one (just till the time for construction begins)?
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Old January 6th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #9404
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Why dont they do a 1+1 road on the good one (just till the time for construction begins)?
I don't think it would be safer and better. And I think we shouldn't start this discussion over and over every several weeks.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #9405
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Originally Posted by Orionol View Post
But it is a important road, am I right?
It connects Northern Germany + Berlin + Denmark to Southern Poland?
Important to whom? If Germany and Denmark would like to pay for rebuilding the eastbound carriageway, I guess Poland would agree.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 06:34 PM   #9406
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Long-distance traffic can avoid A18 quite easily by taking A14 south from Magdeburg and then take A4 east via Dresden into Poland. It's approximately 30 kilometers longer, and Google Maps even suggest this route as their primary route between Hannover and Wrocław.

However I do agree that renovating DK18 eastbound should be a higher priority. Having a road in that condition is unacceptable, even if it carries little traffic. Unfortunately repairing concrete pavement over a distance of 70 kilometers or so is quite expensive.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #9407
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Driving on A2, A14 and A4 on December 22 was not really a pleasent experience. Full of NL and GB plates . The A2 was just stuck between Hannover and Berlin. Merged A14 into A4 was not really better. I wouldnt say that there was little traffic on the DK(A)18 that day.

I only wondered how the A4, A15 and A12 looked further on the Polish borders.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #9408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
However I do agree that renovating DK18 eastbound should be a higher priority.
Higher priority? Name investment project which is less important than A18. Can't see any.
Quote:
Having a road in that condition is unacceptable, even if it carries little traffic. Unfortunately repairing concrete pavement over a distance of 70 kilometers or so is quite expensive.
DK18 should be renovated and organised as 2+1 highway. That's all and it will be fine enough for upcoming decade.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 07:26 PM   #9409
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Originally Posted by Jakub Warszauer View Post
Higher priority? Name investment project which is less important than A18. Can't see any.
Thousands of kilometers of national and voievodeship roads in Poland have been renovated in the past 6 - 7 years. But not DK18, which is an important route for long-distance traffic (i.e. economic priority) which condition is currently so bad it could damage your vehicle. It's not just a few potholes here and there but it's a circa 70 kilometer stretch of road that is in very poor condition.

All in all, this road is the absolute shame of the European Union and cannot be compared to some poor rural roads with little traffic, it's one of the main entrance roads to Poland.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #9410
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Thousands of kilometers of national and voievodeship roads in Poland have been renovated in the past 6 - 7 years. But not DK18
Well, but it was converted from single-carriageway to collision-free dual-carriageway in the past 6-7 years.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 07:52 PM   #9411
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Can we please keep in mind that Poland achieved a connection from Warsaw to Germany only in 2012? I remember when Vilnius -> Berlin took over 24 hours. Now it takes less than 12 hours.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 08:33 PM   #9412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Thousands of kilometers of national and voievodeship roads in Poland have been renovated in the past 6 - 7 years. But not DK18, which is an important route for long-distance traffic
this road was projected and made by nazis in 1930's and now serves no purpose and is not so easy to renovate. guys who would improve it using the methods as they do with asphalt country roads would finally end in prison for mismanagnement since 12-wheelers would destroy it very fast. poland is not spain which build thousands of highways without cautious consideration.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #9413
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Originally Posted by Biesiada View Post
this road was projected and made by nazis in 1930's

please understand this road was as you wrote: "projected" by Germans on their own teritory. Yalta brought this teritory to Poland.

...just an explaination to foreigners.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #9414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biesiada View Post
this road was projected and made by nazis in 1930's and now serves no purpose and is not so easy to renovate. guys who would improve it using the methods as they do with asphalt country roads would finally end in prison for mismanagnement since 12-wheelers would destroy it very fast. poland is not spain which build thousands of highways without cautious consideration.
I don't quite follow what you mean.

First about the importance of this road. It connects Hannover, Hamburg and Berlin with Wroclav and the Katowice Gliwice metropolitan area in Poland and Ostrava in Czech republic. Those regions are the most densely populated regions both in Poland and in the Czech republic. I understand that this is not priority for Poland because there the priority is connecting the inside of the Poland first. However, it is not true that it would serve no purpose.

Secondly. I don't see the reconstruction as so much complicated. There are few bridges and interchanges, it is mostly just straight road. I think it should get under 150 mln euro for the whole part even if they wanted to lay new concrete. With slabbing the old concrete and making just asphalt repaving that would get even cheaper. (I am no specialist, thus feel free to correct me).

Thirdly. I think that Poland benefited hugely from the EU funds and it should do so in the future, thus it would be nice gesture to get this last connection with Germany into order. Furthermore I think it should not be so hard to push this motorway into the structural funds financing and it would make perfect sense to do it.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #9415
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designed, not projected - just a clarification on wording so other nationals could understand what are we talking about here

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Originally Posted by Jakub Warszauer View Post
Higher priority? Name investment project which is less important than A18. Can't see any.(...)
I'll step into Chris'es shoes and make the call: S6. It is still being given high priority despite the fact that it is still missing environmental permit.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #9416
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I'll step into Chris'es shoes and make the call: S6. It is still being given high priority despite the fact that it is still missing environmental permit.
OK, this is a good example. However, even least not-needed sections of S6 are far from being constructed.

What I meant is that I can't name any currently constructed stretch of motorway / expressway which should give way A18.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #9417
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agreed
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Old January 7th, 2013, 12:13 AM   #9418
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My apologies if this was already discussed 200 pages ago, but I've just noticed that there is no full motorway in existence or in construction between Warsaw and Krakow, the two biggest cities in Poland. Why is that? Is there perhaps a good expressway on that route already?
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Old January 7th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #9419
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
My apologies if this was already discussed 200 pages ago, but I've just noticed that there is no full motorway in existence or in construction between Warsaw and Krakow, the two biggest cities in Poland. Why is that? Is there perhaps a good expressway on that route already?
S7 between Warsaw and Kraków is one of the priorities for the coming years. Parts of it are ready or u/c (Grójec - Radom and Skarżysko-Kamienna - Kielce), the rest should be tendered within a few years, hopefully sooner than later (promises were made about all remaining sections of S7 Kraków-Warszawa being tendered in 2014, but we'll see). The existing road is pretty decent, except for permanently jammed parts within Kraków and Warszawa.

Most people actually prefer using train to go from Kraków to Warszawa and vice versa, because it's quite quick and comfy.
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Old January 7th, 2013, 12:34 AM   #9420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub Warszauer View Post
OK, this is a good example. However, even least not-needed sections of S6 are far from being constructed.

What I meant is that I can't name any currently constructed stretch of motorway / expressway which should give way A18.
What about last part of A4, Radymno-Korczowa section? I guess 22km of this section is much more expensive than putting new pavement on 1 line of A18. If you ask me, which motorway should have higher priority I would say definitly A18.
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