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Old January 20th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #9481
Sasza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Which connector? A temporary one?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Hmmm. Suwalki would block deliveries of food to Suwalki? I don't think that would work for very long.
"With exception for local transport"
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Old January 21st, 2013, 02:19 AM   #9482
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I thought I was quite up to date with the situation in the north east of Poland, clearly not! Could anybody explain the following to me:

1. Where does the Suwalki bypass end? It looks like it ends nowhere.
2. Where is the new Augustow bypass planned and what route is it going to be part of? The planned S61 track appears to be too far away to be called an Augustow bypass, so I assume it has to be S8 (?).
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:25 AM   #9483
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1. The ongoing construction is not Suwalki bypass it's part of Augustow bypass.
2. It will have 1x2 GP class part from current DK8 to future S61 all as a part of bypass.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 05:14 AM   #9484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasza View Post

1. The ongoing construction is not Suwalki bypass it's part of Augustow bypass.
2. It will have 1x2 GP class part from current DK8 to future S61 all as a part of bypass.
OK, so the red section that is being built now is just a road that will join the DK8 with the S61 (i.e. it is not part of the S61)? The map is not quite clear in that it doesn't have the 'planned' roads, so it is quite hard to put the red section in relation to the future plans for S61 and DK8. Anyway, if this is the case, then I am quite surprised that this section is being built before others. Wouldn't a Lomza bypass (an several other sections) be of higher priority?
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Old January 21st, 2013, 05:31 AM   #9485
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That is just a part of Augustów bypass. It has no significance for 61 route right now. You can see planned roads here: http://stadiony.klszarak.org/scc_a_s.swf
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Old January 21st, 2013, 05:31 AM   #9486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
I thought I was quite up to date with the situation in the north east of Poland, clearly not!
Everyone is wrong sometimes. Most people are even aggressively wrong sometimes. The best we can do is acknowledge when we're wrong. Thanks for doing so. I'm glad the S8 versus S61 argument is behind us.

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Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
1. Where does the Suwalki bypass end? It looks like it ends nowhere.
The southwestern end of the S61 section currently under construction ends at Raczki. I guess the next intersections will be the DK16 and then the DK65 probably not far north of Grajewo. Then more or less following the existing DK61 to Lomza and then more or less paralleling the DW677 to the S8 at Ostrow Mazowiecka.

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Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
2. Where is the new Augustow bypass planned and what route is it going to be part of? The planned S61 track appears to be too far away to be called an Augustow bypass, so I assume it has to be S8 (?).
Look at the map PLH kindly posted on the previous page. The S61 section under construction is shown in green. The Augustow bypass is shown in red (vertical along the left side of the image) and presumably will be numbered DK8 when it opens.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:18 PM   #9487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Everyone is wrong sometimes. Most people are even aggressively wrong sometimes. The best we can do is acknowledge when we're wrong. Thanks for doing so. I'm glad the S8 versus S61 argument is behind us.
As you can see, I don't have a problem admitting when I'm clearly wrong about something (so, for example, unlike some other forumers, I wouldn't have a problem admitting that I was wrong if I had claimed that a section of a planned road was going to be built quickly when virtually no progress is being made and there's nothing really significant in the plans for the next 10 [most likely many more] years). I do no agree with your points in the S61 vs S8 argument. Only one forumer (grzegorz) has expressed a neutral opinion in our argument and he supported me, so 1:0.

Thanks for the other explanations.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:43 PM   #9488
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Does anybody have the exact lengths of both the U/C bit of S61 and the Augustow bypass?
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:58 PM   #9489
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23,3 km of 1x2GP and 13 km of S class road.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 04:21 PM   #9490
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Not bad
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Old January 21st, 2013, 09:52 PM   #9491
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Progress of building motorways and expressways in Poland (%).


Green - existing,
Red - under construction,
Blue - planned.
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Schemat:
S7 Wschodnia obwodnica Krakowa
A1 Stryków - Tuszyn (ostatni).
Wszystkie schematy tutaj.

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Old January 21st, 2013, 10:36 PM   #9492
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Nice picture. Thanks!
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Old January 21st, 2013, 11:17 PM   #9493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
unlike some other forumers, I wouldn't have a problem admitting that I was wrong if I had claimed that a section of a planned road was going to be built quickly when virtually no progress is being made and there's nothing really significant in the plans for the next 10 [most likely many more] years).
I have no idea to what you are alluding. If you want to make an accusation, please make it clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
I do no agree with your points in the S61 vs S8 argument.
Even if you disagree with the reasons, I hope you can at least agree that the S61 is being built and the S8 between Bialystok and Suwalki is not being built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Only one forumer (grzegorz) has expressed a neutral opinion in our argument and he supported me,
That is both a contradiction and not entirely consistent with the facts.

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so 1:0.


Quote:
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Thanks for the other explanations.
You're welcome.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 12:00 AM   #9494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agusia View Post

Green - existing,
Red - under construction,
Blue - planned.
completely useless pie graph. makes more questions than answers
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 12:55 AM   #9495
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What questions?
Don't you understand that graph?

Road plans in Poland are:
1989,4 km of motorways,
5490 km of expressways.

The graph shows you % of existing, u/c and planned. That's all.
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Schemat:
S7 Wschodnia obwodnica Krakowa
A1 Stryków - Tuszyn (ostatni).
Wszystkie schematy tutaj.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 12:57 AM   #9496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
I have no idea to what you are alluding. If you want to make an accusation, please make it clearly.


Even if you disagree with the reasons, I hope you can at least agree that the S61 is being built and the S8 between Bialystok and Suwalki is not being built.


That is both a contradiction and not entirely consistent with the facts.





You're welcome.
I have already said what I wanted to say. It is a fact that roads with higher AADT get financed/built quicker and if you can't see it then I don't think I can help you. I am sure that drawing roads with a ruler on top of road maps looking for marginal decreases in journey distance is a great hobby, but I am afraid you only got this (will get it in 50-100 years) due to environmental concerns of the Bialystok - Augustow route and not for the reasons that you put forward. The original (logical) route for Via Baltica went via Bialystok and the only reason why it got reviewed was environmental concerns.

P.S.
1. Augustow bypass will always be part of the Bialystok - Baltics/Suwalki route DK8, and it is [correct me if I'm wrong] the longest section that is under construction in the region at the moment (even though it's just 1x2);

2. The biggest (not longest) [correct me if I'm wrong] project in the region (the red bit in the south west of Suwalki) is/always will be part of the Bialystok-Baltics/Suwalki section too.

So there you go: both the longest section and the largest project in the region are parts of the Bialystok-Baltics/Suwalki route. Both are built from Augustow to the north, i.e. where Lomza-Baltics/Suwalki traffic merges with the Bialystok-Baltics/Suwalki traffic, just like I told you. Obviously there are bypasses of Stawiski and Sczuczyn that you can use as an argument, but I don't see them as significant developments of the S61. They are more of a proof how much less development there is to the south of Augustow where the traffic is split, just like I have always been telling you.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 09:34 AM   #9497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agusia View Post
What questions?
Don't you understand that graph?

Road plans in Poland are:
1989,4 km of motorways,
5490 km of expressways.


The graph shows you % of existing, u/c and planned. That's all.
a way better. a pie graph with totals gives a clear picture.

now we can apply pure mathematics. just an example:

we have got 169 km of motorways U/C. definately this is not 13,67% of total.

I guess the difference is cused by these contracts which are aready cancelled/abandoned/etc
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:52 PM   #9498
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169,6 km is u/c
+ 64 km A1,
+ 38,3 km A4
= 169,6 + 102,3=271,9 km

271,9x100/1989,4= 13,667 %
Those roads (A1,A4) are not cancelled/abandoned but will be built (just a little later) by new executors. That's why I added to u/c.
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Schemat:
S7 Wschodnia obwodnica Krakowa
A1 Stryków - Tuszyn (ostatni).
Wszystkie schematy tutaj.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #9499
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From polish forum:
Risk of getting into head-on collision on polish roads in years 2009 - 2011:
[QUOTE=reig;99655732]
[QUOTE]
Risk:
- very low
- low
- average
- high
- very high

Traffic volume forecast for 2020 (by number of cars per 24 h in one direction):

Quote:
mapa ze strony SISKOMu
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Old January 28th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #9500
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clearly, S17 and S7 must be deemed a priority for next budgeting outlook
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