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Old May 5th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #9781
ChrisZwolle
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Ending this noise barrier madness should be one of the top priorities. It totally ruins the country.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #9782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Has everybody seen the Polish acoustic screen craziness?
Street View
What the hell?
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Old May 5th, 2013, 10:37 PM   #9783
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This is nuts, imagine you just bought a nice place there and next day you wake up with a huge barrier in your front yard.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:35 AM   #9784
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Haha, it looks like a hall with doors entering each apartment (in this case house).
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:40 AM   #9785
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I found this article about the noise barriers along the A2 motorway between Warsaw and Stryków -> http://moto.wp.pl/kat,55194,title,Dr...wiadomosc.html.
It clearly shows the enormous scale of the noise barriers madness - along this 92 km long motorway a total of 88 km of noise barriers have been built and the expense of at least 200 million PLN (some 50 million euros) And, as you know, it crosses mostly sparsely populated countryside.
The noise barriers madness is a result of enormous corruption in Poland - decision makers approved the law that requires the construction of noise barriers almost everywhere. They cost a lot of money, ruin the landscape but most importantly - enable to transfer millions of euros to noise barrieres producers
The Supreme Chamber of Control (NIK in Polish) promised an investigation, but surely no one will ever have to give this money back ...


A2 west of Warsaw, April 2012
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:50 AM   #9786
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Fortunately regulations has been changed recently. There is no needs to build such an expensive noise barriers any more.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:58 AM   #9787
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Quote:
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The noise barriers madness is a result of enormous corruption in Poland - decision makers approved the law that requires the construction of noise barriers almost everywhere. They cost a lot of money, ruin the landscape but most importantly - enable to transfer millions of euros to noise barrieres producers
Nope, it's a result of directive 2002/49/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council. Transport related noise is a very serious public health issue, maybe we're not dealing with it the best way possible, but it's certainly better than what we used to do - building new infrastructure right through towns and saying "deal with it, if you don't like the noise then move somewhere else". Obviously sometimes the measures taken are way excessive, DW 579 in Tłuste is a perfect example of that, but overall the noise barriers are necessary. One would hope they weren't so ugly (I'd opt for toned down barriers in grays and pastels like on refurbished motorways in Austria, with as much foliage on them as possible), but that's not really the biggest concern.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 04:45 AM   #9788
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The alternative would have been to pay compensation to the property owners whose values were reduced by the noise.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #9789
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You'll be gone before sundown...
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #9790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Nope, it's a result of directive 2002/49/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council. Transport related noise is a very serious public health issue, maybe we're not dealing with it the best way possible, but it's certainly better than what we used to do - building new infrastructure right through towns and saying "deal with it, if you don't like the noise then move somewhere else". Obviously sometimes the measures taken are way excessive, DW 579 in Tłuste is a perfect example of that, but overall the noise barriers are necessary. One would hope they weren't so ugly (I'd opt for toned down barriers in grays and pastels like on refurbished motorways in Austria, with as much foliage on them as possible), but that's not really the biggest concern.
Maybe it could be helped by better spatial planing? I mean I understand noise barries around roads with heavy traffic in build up areas. I could accept it around 1x1 roads as well. The point is, wouldn't it be better to build those roads bit more distant from the build up areas, or allow the housing construction only far away of those areas?

It would seem to me that the example posted could have been solved in some other way, keeping small acess road for the housing district, while keeping the transit road in bigger distance.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #9791
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If you zoom out the map, you can see that the road bends to make a bypass of this village, but the bypass is not complete. Road 579 doesn't belong to GDDKiA, so they just constructed the necessary part (junction and viaduct over A2), while the rest remained only in plans.
This situation could have beed avoided if there was better coooperation between GDDKiA and regional road administation.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #9792
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Quote:
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The noise barriers madness is a result of enormous corruption in Poland
Can you prove that?
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Old May 6th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #9793
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Of course not. It resulted from following EU guidelines to the letter. It is undesirable to build "Berlin Wall" style barriers next to all roads. You cannot get noise down to below 50 dB at all locations, you have to be pragmatic.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 09:55 PM   #9794
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Agree.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 11:26 PM   #9795
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acoustic screens were installed because Poles are the biggest whiners/complainers on earth and every Pole wants absolute quiet even if they live in the city, a forest on one side, public square on the other, playground and on the fourth acoustic screen. Poles are still nervous and shell-shocked from WWII - we need lots of quiet, especially the old bags who clog the justice system with millions of nuisance complaints every year.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 03:00 AM   #9796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Of course not. It resulted from following EU guidelines to the letter. It is undesirable to build "Berlin Wall" style barriers next to all roads. You cannot get noise down to below 50 dB at all locations, you have to be pragmatic.
Wasn't it the case that Poland adopted the strictest limits possible according to the EU regulations?
I wander what are the limits in other countries. Couple of weeks ago I drove along the few recently opened Irish motorways and there are very few noise barriers.
This is especially curious as Ireland also has housing spread around the country.

Last edited by geogregor; May 7th, 2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #9797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
acoustic screens were installed because Poles are the biggest whiners/complainers on earth and every Pole wants absolute quiet even if they live in the city, a forest on one side, public square on the other, playground and on the fourth acoustic screen. Poles are still nervous and shell-shocked from WWII - we need lots of quiet, especially the old bags who clog the justice system with millions of nuisance complaints every year.
After Austria, who are also very active, when it comes to reducing noise. Apart from the walls, they've even set the speedlimits at 110 for cars and 60 for lorries on the A12 at nighttime.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 01:21 PM   #9798
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3 questions

1. Which route is better to take from Krakow to Auschwitz:
- A4 and then road 933 like this http://goo.gl/maps/xhHTs
- A4-DK44 like this http://goo.gl/maps/01rx7

2. From Auschwitz to the tripoint PL/CZ/SK
- http://goo.gl/maps/1jBDE or
- http://goo.gl/maps/LbNG6

I see on Streetview the road goes all the way to the border with CZ.

Where can the car be safely parked?
Or is the tripoint better accessible from CZ or SK side?

3. Which route to take back to Krakow from the tripoint?

Thanks. I will be leaving for Krakow on Thursday morning

Last edited by cinxxx; May 7th, 2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #9799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Wasn't it the case that Poland adopted the strictest limits possible according to the EU regulations?
If I'm correct, the limit is 50 dB(A) in all countries. However, most countries have provisions in the law for allowing higher limits if screens are not feasible, desirable or cost-effective.

The Dutch approach is three-fold; silent pavement, noise barriers and house insulation. In Poland, noise barriers appear to be the only noise abatement measure. There are maybe only 10 kilometers of 6+ meter tall noise barriers along Dutch motorways. Most noise barriers are not taller than 3 meters.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #9800
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What about Austria? It seems they got totally carried away.
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