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Old May 13th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #9821
mcarling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
Quite bizar that Poland still has not one full completed North-South motorway. I understand that most (foreign) traffic is East-West oriented but still.
Poland also still doesn't have a fully completed east-west motorway.

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Regardless of the missing North-South link at the moment its impressive to see how far Poland has come in the last 5-6 years.
Agreed.
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Old May 14th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #9822
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Alpine Bau decided to terminate the contract, they won't be finishing MA532 on A1 Świerklany - Gorzyczki.

We're all doomed.
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Old May 14th, 2013, 05:02 PM   #9823
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Was in Poland for a few days. My route: http://goo.gl/maps/9w9xX
Some short general impressions:
- motorways (A4, S7): excellent
- national roads: good
- rural roads: acceptable to good
- city roads (Wroclaw, Krakow): bad to very bad
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Old May 14th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #9824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Alpine Bau decided to terminate the contract, they won't be finishing MA532 on A1 Świerklany - Gorzyczki.

We're all doomed.
Actually it's very good news, we can finally start to hope that this bridge will be finished. GDDKiA has already paid subcontractors who are willing to continue to work on the bridge (which by the way is 97% finished).

Management of Alpine Bau is not the brightest bunch for sure. They once again abandon their work, GDDKiA starts drawing down on their bank collateral and (let's hope) they will eventually be banned from taking part in any future tenders in Poland.

Polish tender law needs to be amended though. After a company walks off a job it should never be allowed to participate in any new tenders for the same work. Like the old saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
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Old May 14th, 2013, 08:26 PM   #9825
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yeah, but this means terrible delays, right?
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Old May 14th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #9826
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yeah, but this means terrible delays, right?
Actually it's not clear if they actually terminated the contract, GDDKiA claims Alpine declared they might terminate it. GDDKiA also says it doesn't really matter, because the contract says that in such eventuality their subcontractors will finish the job and get paid directly. It seems like it might be a liquidity problem for Alpine, the whole Alpine Holding is in bad shape and they're trying to cut their losses here... and it doesn't help that MA532 is one of the most complicated bridges in Europe according to experts.
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Old May 14th, 2013, 08:54 PM   #9827
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Quote:
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It seems like it might be a liquidity problem for Alpine, the whole Alpine Holding is in bad shape and they're trying to cut their losses here...
Yeah looks like it;

Der finanziell angeschlagene Salzburger Baukonzern Alpine tritt eigenen Angaben zufolge vom Vertrag für die polnische Autobahn A1 zurück.

http://www.salzburg.com/nachrichten/...zurueck-58954/

edit: it looks like they had a loss of € 450 million in 2012.

Alpine Bau meldet 449,7 Millionen Euro Jahresverlust

http://www.format.at/articles/1317/9...-jahresverlust

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; May 14th, 2013 at 09:32 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 03:23 AM   #9828
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However many financial problems Alpina has, I wonder who will now take responsibility for the safety of this damn bridge.
Subcontractors? GDDKiA? Designer/engineer? Nobody?
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Old May 15th, 2013, 09:50 AM   #9829
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Can someone explain what exactly is going on with that bridge? As I remember there was even an option of demolishing bridge due to some construction problems. Does it means now they found some solution to overcome obstacles ? GDDKiA says they will be able to finish construction works even after AlpieBau leaves the site.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 10:36 AM   #9830
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There was an info by TVN24: Finishing bridge will cost another 45 mln zl = 85% of amount of money spent till now for whole bridge.(!)...
What they are going to do? Demolish bridge and build another one from scratch? Maybe that would be cheaper option...
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Old May 15th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #9831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufonut View Post
Actually it's very good news, we can finally start to hope that this bridge will be finished. GDDKiA has already paid subcontractors who are willing to continue to work on the bridge (which by the way is 97% finished).

Management of Alpine Bau is not the brightest bunch for sure. They once again abandon their work, GDDKiA starts drawing down on their bank collateral and (let's hope) they will eventually be banned from taking part in any future tenders in Poland.

Polish tender law needs to be amended though. After a company walks off a job it should never be allowed to participate in any new tenders for the same work. Like the old saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
Sounds reasonable. Austrians won tender twice- and then said twice they won't build it
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #9832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukaszek89 View Post
Sounds reasonable. Austrians won tender twice- and then said twice they won't build it


what if they win it the third time ?
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Old May 15th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #9833
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They won't-according to the Polish law.

and the bridge:









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Old May 15th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #9834
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S2 in Warsaw

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Old May 16th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #9835
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Astaldi got booted from the tender for rebuilding S8 in Warszawa due to an abnormal low price for the project. They originally won the tender but the tender commission rejected it. Czech Metrostav is now the constructor of this project.
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Old May 16th, 2013, 07:48 PM   #9836
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Toruń-Trasa Wschodnia i Most drogowy im. gen. Elżbiety Zawackiej


Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Przy okazji dzisiejszej wizyty na budowie mostu też zwróciłem uwagę na brak zamontowanej łącznicy pomiędzy barkami co sugeruje, że raczej na transport drugiego łuku jeszcze poczekamy.
1.

2.


Dorzucę do świetnych zdjęć kolegi Sobolek88 jeszcze kilka dzisiejszych zdjęć z południowej części placu Daszyńskiego

3.

4. Południowa zatoka autobusowa przy ulicy Żółkiewskiego

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.



Przy południowym wylocie z tunelu (fot. 7, 8) widać całkiem sporo ziemi, która zostanie zepchnięta ze skarpy i utworzy wypełnienie połączenie estakady z tunelem (fot. 9).
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Old May 16th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #9837
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...
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cd.
10.

11.

12.

13.

14.

.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 01:42 AM   #9838
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and it doesn't help that MA532 is one of the most complicated bridges in Europe according to experts.
What is the reason for that? "Special" terrain?
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Old May 17th, 2013, 02:20 AM   #9839
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What is the reason for that? "Special" terrain?
Special bridge. Widest extradosed bridge in Europe for sure, probably in the world. Very wide (for an extradosed bridge), yet very thin, also curved a bit, so prestression design had to be very precise.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 04:06 AM   #9840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Special bridge. Widest extradosed bridge in Europe for sure, probably in the world. Very wide (for an extradosed bridge), yet very thin, also curved a bit, so prestression design had to be very precise.
To add complication, there is also a slip road joining the main bridge almost in the middle. It further complicates forces which had to be calculated.
Looking back in hindsight designing such complicated structure (and the whole junction) was a very costly mistake.

Last edited by geogregor; May 19th, 2013 at 04:35 PM.
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