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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:15 PM   #10421
Eulanthe
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Quick question :

What's the current plans for tolls on the A1 near Gliwice? I noticed that there are covered up "płatna" signs on the A1 north of the A4 junction - so does this mean that we'll see a closed tolling system with the A1 and A4?

(surely, surely, surely the GDDKiA aren't going to be so insane as to require stops at two tolls when travelling from the A1 North to the A4 West?)

As for the tolls on the A4, what a mess. I was there yesterday - there was a 15 minute wait just to get a ticket at the Katowice end, and a similar 15 minute wait at the Wroclaw end to pay for the ticket. The jam to get a ticket at Wroclaw stretched all the way to the Bielany junction - that's simply completely unacceptable.

I also notice that at least on the A4, they're not asking for PIN numbers when you use a card - but it took at least 30 seconds from handing over the ticket/card to get my card back. Come on GDDKiA, sort it out!
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #10422
mcarling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if they opened it within a few weeks.
Perhaps, but some of it is still just gravel. I believe they need to put down three layers of asphalt, then paint, before they can open it. No?
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #10423
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Perhaps, but some of it is still just gravel. I believe they need to put down three layers of asphalt, then paint, before they can open it. No?
Sounds like one week's work to me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
(surely, surely, surely the GDDKiA aren't going to be so insane as to require stops at two tolls when travelling from the A1 North to the A4 West?)
I've got bad news for you.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:07 AM   #10424
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Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
I've got bad news for you.
...

Are they completely out of their mind? Where is the sense in this?

I thought the situation near Strykow was insane enough, but this is just beyond belief - what possible reason is there not to link the A1 and A4 tolling systems?

The A2, A1 and A4 are screaming to be built as one proper closed tolling system without frequent stops - if I drive from Poznan, I shouldn't have to stop until I reach the CZ border. But this situation is just a mess
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:11 AM   #10425
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
(surely, surely, surely the GDDKiA aren't going to be so insane as to require stops at two tolls when travelling from the A1 North to the A4 West?)
You can already notice concrete plaza prepared for the toll booths. http://maps.google.com/?ll=50.331655...341.37,,0,8.79
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:20 AM   #10426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Are they completely out of their mind? Where is the sense in this?
Basically if it were up to GDDKiA, all motorways would be tolled under one system, but it's not their decision. For political a decision has been made to exclude some short sections of motorways from the tolling system, hence the current situation.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #10427
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Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
Basically if it were up to GDDKiA, all motorways would be tolled under one system, but it's not their decision. For political a decision has been made to exclude some short sections of motorways from the tolling system, hence the current situation.
Nope. Currently the only section excluded from tolls is A4 Kleszczów-Sośnica and it is already covered by closed system, but with zero rate.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #10428
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Nope. Currently the only section excluded from tolls is A4 Kleszczów-Sośnica and it is already covered by closed system, but with zero rate.
The reason why there is a toll collection plaza on A4 just a bit west of Gliwice-Sośnica interchange is because of how the toll system was designed. Were Gliwice-Sośnica designed to be a part of tolled motorway system, there would be no need for PPOs west, north and south of it.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #10429
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Still, there is no such need. One PPO east of Sośnica would be enough and zero rates could be introduced on sections which politicians want to be toll-free.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 01:05 AM   #10430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
The reason why there is a toll collection plaza on A4 just a bit west of Gliwice-Sośnica interchange is because of how the toll system was designed. Were Gliwice-Sośnica designed to be a part of tolled motorway system, there would be no need for PPOs west, north and south of it.
What's the reason for excluding that junction anyway?

I've had a look on OSM and it seems that the connection to the DTS wouldn't support a tolling system - that's the only reason that I can see?
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Old August 13th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #10431
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Torun:

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Originally Posted by Sobolek88 View Post
11 sierpnia w Toruniu gościł prof. Biliszczuk z Wrocławia. Poniżej kilka zdjęć jego autorstwa:











Źródło: mostypolskie.pl
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Old August 14th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #10432
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
What's the reason for excluding that junction anyway?

I've had a look on OSM and it seems that the connection to the DTS wouldn't support a tolling system - that's the only reason that I can see?
The whole idea of toll motorways in Upper Silesia is a mess.
Here is how it looks like:



Red - existing toll plazas
Orange - planned (there is one more on A1 near Czech border)

Purple - this is how it should look like (without the three toll plazas around Gliwice).

I just hope that someone will realize that this idea is detrimental for the agglomeration and resign from opening two more toll plazas near Gliwice.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #10433
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So then it would better if there was no toll-free sections. It would make driving more expensive but less complicated.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 04:14 PM   #10434
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Less complicated for transit drivers, but far more complicated for local traffic.
The toll stations on junctions would need to be enormous to serve the traffic.

Here are the trafic figures (vehicles per day) from 2010 (that is even before large sections of A1 were opened)

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Old August 14th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #10435
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Usually motorways are for transit traffic not for local one. Silesia region may be a bit different, it is highly urbanized. So there is a choice: either let locals drive on tool-free motorways making them more congested or make whole motorway system tooled as it is in other countries without making exceptions around bigger cities like is now in Silesia, Poznan or Krakow. The whole tool-free sections idea around bigger cities was forced by some mostly local populist politicians in the past. Now we have to deal with such an complex tooling system.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #10436
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A1 Stryków- Tuszyn by kozaist





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Old August 14th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #10437
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Are those photos of the A1 from the Stryków or the Tuszyn end of the route?
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #10438
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Probably the S8 interchange. A1 is not that far advanced yet.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:15 PM   #10439
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@ Ufonut
This is helluva progress
I don't think so....
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #10440
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@ Ufonut
This is helluva progress
I don't think so....
That's what I suspected given that A1 between Stryków and Tuszyn isn't due to be completed until June 2014

Still the S3 expressway between the A2 and Międzyrzecz South opens to traffic tomorrow
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