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Old October 1st, 2013, 09:06 PM   #10621
rakcancer
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I guess this is your highly non scientific opinion which there is no point to discuss about here or do you have anything to support your ranking? For example I don't think it is correct that Hungary is classified in the bottom.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 09:45 PM   #10622
John Maynard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
These roads are not that new
They were constructed in 90s. (except for S10)
Yes, many of these roads were built end of the 90's, except A4 (previously RAB Berlin-Breslau) which was built in 1936-1937 by Germans.
But it's not entirely true, because, S8 bypass of Radzymin was rebuild and modernized in 2007. Same for DK3 Goleniow-Wolin, as well for A4, all of them were entirely rebuilt and modernized during the very same period.
As a matter of fact, they ain't that old at all.
So, why some of these "newer" roads are already "average" (including new S10) after such short period of time?

I'd like also to mention S8 bypass of Ostrow Maz. built in 2003; but according to your map, it is in a heavy aggravated condition, after only 10 years.

Last edited by John Maynard; October 1st, 2013 at 09:53 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 02:37 PM   #10623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proterra View Post

5. Netherlands
4. Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Norway
3. Poland, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Belgium, Hungary
2. Slovakia, Romania
1. Ukraine, Moldova
For me it should be ...
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 03:59 PM   #10624
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Why Belgium in 3rd group, and Slovakia in 4th? -they have much the same roads as Poland does.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 06:26 PM   #10625
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I think we shouldn't waste more time to comment that ranking. It is highly subjective.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 07:54 PM   #10626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
So, why some of these "newer" roads are already "average" (including new S10) after such short period of time?

Add bad design*/wrong materials used**/poor quality of works** to heavy traffic and Polish winters - and what you get are deteriorated, relatively new roads.


* when for example the construction layers of road are not as thick as they should be for certain type of ground

** obviously some road projects lacked proper supervision
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 08:40 PM   #10627
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The average asphalt layer doesn't last much longer than 10 - 12 years without maintenance, especially if it carries heavy traffic.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 08:51 PM   #10628
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I read somewhere that traffic in Poland is the second heaviest after Germany in Europe.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:17 PM   #10629
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The average asphalt layer doesn't last much longer than 10 - 12 years without maintenance, especially if it carries heavy traffic.
A4 near Opole has 13 years and currently it is being resurfaced. The quality of surface was not *perfect* but still good enough for green colour on our map I think they could wait with full resurfacing one or two more years.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:19 PM   #10630
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Quote:
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I read somewhere that traffic in Poland is the second heaviest after Germany in Europe.
Did you read that in a Polish article or something?
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 10:46 PM   #10631
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It is not a surprise since Poland lies between west and east, so lots of transit traffic appears on Polish roads.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 02:14 AM   #10632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Add bad design*/wrong materials used**/poor quality of works** to heavy traffic and Polish winters - and what you get are deteriorated, relatively new roads.


* when for example the construction layers of road are not as thick as they should be for certain type of ground

** obviously some road projects lacked proper supervision
Well, is it better now? I mean, are their some controls made by the authorities to avoid bad quality roads? Is their in a national level an engineering supervision?

I can notice that Polish winter is mostly the same as many Northern and Central Western European countries (per ex. Scandinavia, parts of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy) as well as North America (which is even more rough in some area, per ex. Canada).

Traffic is also very heavy in Western Europe, especially in Germany, Netherlands and France, but without ruts or potholes on main motorways/roads.

Objectively, I hope these new roads won't be in a crappy condition in a few years because of lack of maintenance.

Besides, how are road works and maintenance scheduled and managed in Poland?
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Old October 4th, 2013, 02:19 AM   #10633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The average asphalt layer doesn't last much longer than 10 - 12 years without maintenance, especially if it carries heavy traffic.
Thank you for your reply.

What about concrete surfacing, it lasts in average 2-3 times longer than asphalt. Isn't it better for heavy traffic and rough weather as well as it requires less maintenance?
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Old October 4th, 2013, 05:41 AM   #10634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Well, is it better now? I mean, are their some controls made by the authorities to avoid bad quality roads? Is their in a national level an engineering supervision?

I can notice that Polish winter is mostly the same as many Northern and Central Western European countries (per ex. Scandinavia, parts of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy) as well as North America (which is even more rough in some area, per ex. Canada).

I disagree. Poland has the most crossings through the 0 Celcius degree during the year in Europe and this is deadly for roads surface. Also asphalt mixture in Poland have to stand
-30 Celcius deegres in winter and +40 Celcius degrees in Summer. There are totally extreme conditions demanding the best roads materials to handle roads in good conditions for about 10-15 years.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 12:23 PM   #10635
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Does anybody know what is the status of the Jarosław West interchange (formally known as Jarosław Wierzbno) (DK94/A4) - is it fully complete and open to traffic yet? If it is open does that mean the stretch of the A4 between Jarosław West and Jarosław South interchanges is open to traffic now?

Are any more parts of the A4 going to be finished and opened to traffic before the end of 2013? The part between Radymno and Korczowa (Polish/Ukranian border) is optimistically scheduled for opening at the end of this year
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Old October 4th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #10636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris80678 View Post
Does anybody know what is the status of the Jarosław West interchange (formally known as Jarosław Wierzbno) (DK94/A4) - is it fully complete and open to traffic yet? If it is open does that mean the stretch of the A4 between Jarosław West and Jarosław South interchanges is open to traffic now?
No, it is not complete and the section is not open for traffic. There is a problem with the viaduct over DK94 (it subsides).
A year ago they even planned to make a temporary bypass of this viaduct to open Jarosław West - Jarosław South section for traffic, but Polimex claimed to finish this junction soon. Year has passed and we still don't know when this junction will be completed...

That's how it looks like:

On the left - completed stretch, on the right - problematic viaduct)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyk-msg View Post




Quote:
Are any more parts of the A4 going to be finished and opened to traffic before the end of 2013? The part between Radymno and Korczowa (Polish/Ukranian border) is optimistically scheduled for opening at the end of this year
Dębica East - Rzeszów North will be opened. Probably in November.

Last edited by Kemo; October 4th, 2013 at 04:17 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #10637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strzala View Post
I disagree. Poland has the most crossings through the 0 Celcius degree during the year in Europe and this is deadly for roads surface. Also asphalt mixture in Poland have to stand
-30 Celcius deegres in winter and +40 Celcius degrees in Summer. There are totally extreme conditions demanding the best roads materials to handle roads in good conditions for about 10-15 years.
Climate conditions have huge influence on the roads indeed. On the other hand I think there are proper materials and construction technologies to mitigate the adverse climate effects.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #10638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strzala View Post
I disagree. Poland has the most crossings through the 0 Celcius degree during the year in Europe and this is deadly for roads surface.
To clarify, this is partly because daily temperature variations at the end of winter are quite extreme. You may have +12°C at daytime, to drop to -0°C at night.
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Old October 6th, 2013, 02:38 AM   #10639
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Hello,

you may be interested in the map of progress in the construction of Polish motorways, which finally came out in English.

from |here|:

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Old October 6th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #10640
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Cool! Is there any chance to include enlargements of fenced areas (Warsaw and Silesia)?
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