daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 7th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #10661
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

S-roads can both be single and dual carriageway, but in practice nearly all new S-roads are dual carriageway with a 120 km/h speed limit. They are de-facto motorways. It's similar to the S-roads in Austria.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 7th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #10662
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

OK... cool... thanks.

So a really good network... however, which is the difference? On S-roads are allowed more types of vehicles and are less restrictive than motorways?
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 03:18 PM   #10663
Haveblue
Registered User
 
Haveblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lublin
Posts: 7,204
Likes (Received): 2674

For the driver there are two notable differences:
1. line width (2,75m against 3.0m on motorways)
2. minimum distance between junctions (6km against 12km on motorways)

there is many more but those are not that much of a concern for the end user.
Haveblue está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 03:55 PM   #10664
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

Few people notice such differences, especially the distance between exits is irrelevant to road status. Motorways in other countries have exits as close as 1 km apart.

The future A1-S8 interchange at Łódź. Interesting how they sign S8 Warszawa, because the interchange at Piotrków Trybunalski (A1-S8) is incomplete, you cannot drive from Łódź to Warszawa via this interchange, you need to turn around elsewhere.

ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #10665
Kemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Segiet
Posts: 10,751
Likes (Received): 18821

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haveblue View Post
For the driver there are two notable differences:
1. line width (2,75m against 3.0m on motorways)
You meant lane width 3.75m on A class and 3.50m on S class. Except for when A road has 3 lanes or it is near a "big city" then it may also have 3.50m wide lanes.


Quote:
2. minimum distance between junctions (6km against 12km on motorways)
This is not actually obligatory, see the density of junctions on Silesian section of A1, for example Bytom and Piekary junctions are closer than 3km.

Plus of course the maximum velocity being 140km/h on A and 120km/h on S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
All the new S-roads are dual carriageways? There is any map to distinguish between single and dual?
Most maps distinguish it
Check the map in post #10639
Kemo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #10666
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haveblue View Post
For the driver there are two notable differences:
1. line width (2,75m against 3.0m on motorways)
2. minimum distance between junctions (6km against 12km on motorways)

there is many more but those are not that much of a concern for the end user.
wrong data

ad 1. line witdh 3,5 m against 3,75 m on motorways

probably you meant service lane
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #10667
Haveblue
Registered User
 
Haveblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lublin
Posts: 7,204
Likes (Received): 2674

ooops ... apologies for wrong lane width. Obviously Kemo is right
Haveblue está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 04:40 PM   #10668
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

OK... thanks... I can figure out where are the main differences... however, is that important the money saving of building slightly narrower roads? For sure, it makes an important difference for driving at 140 km/h instead of 120 km/h... but apart of that...
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #10669
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

Lane width doesn't really influence the speed limit. The primary consideration for lane widths are trucks, which are 2.5 meters wide (excluding mirrors). You can drive 120 on a 3.5 m lane, but you can also drive 180 on that same lane.

Curvature (horizontal & vertical) influences the maximum safe speed much more, for example some of the older Reichsautobahnen in central Germany (hilly areas) do not allow for much more than 150 km/h in curves because they were designed in the 1930s.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #10670
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

OK, thanks.

The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 05:18 PM   #10671
Kemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Segiet
Posts: 10,751
Likes (Received): 18821

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
OK, thanks.

The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...
We in Poland don't understand it either

Tenders for Jarocin and Ostrów Wielkopolski bypasses (parts of S11 highway) announced today.
Kemo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #10672
rav00
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Warszawa
Posts: 401
Likes (Received): 165

As of now, the main difference is that motorways are tolled, while expressways are not (for passenger cars and motorcycles).
rav00 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 05:52 PM   #10673
salto_angel
Visionmonger
 
salto_angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bytůń
Posts: 19,527
Likes (Received): 9385

Not all motorways are tolled. But supposed to be in the future.
__________________
Prezydent: Dziękuję wszystkim tym, którzy wywieszali moje banery na swoich płotach. #stolatplanowania

TUMW
salto_angel está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #10674
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
OK, thanks.

The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland...
there are no two different networks.
expressways are a kind of supplement to motorway backbone. actually we do not have even one completed network
anyway I believe in comparison to other emerging countries Poland does the job quite well. in 10 years from now we would be alright.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
OK, thanks.

... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...
well, I have not traveled around Europe a lot, but Polish s-class roads are as good as other modern roads in Austria (that is where I have been to)
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #10675
Kemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Segiet
Posts: 10,751
Likes (Received): 18821

Quote:
Originally Posted by salto_angel View Post
Not all motorways are tolled. But supposed to be in the future.
A6, A8, sections of A4 are not supposed to be tolled.

We don't know what will be tolled and what not, thet may as well charge tolls on every A/S road.
Kemo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #10676
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5287

Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
This is the map of the motorways constructed and the motorways under construction. I think in 2020 Poland will be a good motorway network. Of course after 2020 roads should be improved, but compare this network with 10-15 years ago. Poland has done a great work on this road network.



Green: constructed
Red: under construction
about half the A4 between Tarnow and Rzeszow on the Rzeszow side is actually complete except for interchange to make it more useable.
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

javimix19, Beck's liked this post
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #10677
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
actually we do not have even one completed network
That's right. We're at least 8-10 years away from Poland having a motorway/expressway network. There are now some motorway and expressway stretches, but they do not yet form a network.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2013, 06:56 PM   #10678
and802
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Izabelin
Posts: 526
Likes (Received): 55


you are right,

having in mind a simple computer network definition like:
"peers are connected to each other"

and translating it onto infrastructure definition:
"cities connected to each other"

I would say we are not even close to complete the motorway network.
anyway, I am not going to complain. personally I am more than happy we have been doing theses big steps for last couple of years
and802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2013, 10:48 PM   #10679
bartek76
GUKPPiW
 
bartek76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Diss/Norfolk
Posts: 3,420
Likes (Received): 13824

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
OK, thanks.

The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...
Well, S-roads are, to be honest, motorways with everything but name. It is quite similar to Spain with autopistas and autovias, and more, the reasons for such divison are relatively similar as well.
In Poland motorways were supposed to be bulit by private companies who would then recover their expenses plus profit via tolls (with government support of course). And our regulators had created (in early nineties) very strict rules for motorways, probably the most strict in the world (very wide lanes, huge distance between junctions etc), in the end of the day they were spending somebody else money.
And perhaps because of that such motorways did not materialize, with one exception of a part of A2. So our authorities had to think hard with a perspective of coming el dorado of EU money for roads. They decided to leave the earlier planned basic network of tolled motorways (A1, A2 and A4) to be build either by private buisness or by state now. And they created new concept of expressways, to be build by state (for EU money mostly) but with reduced to normal not ridiculous requirements, and at least for time being, not tolled. Those expressways network is to be additional to aforementioned motorway one especially that the latter was from day one criticized as not sufficient.
Quite similar to Spain where tolled autopistas were mostly build by private money and then there was a problem of radial roads from Madrid where traffic levels (at least in 70 and 80) did not justify any sound private investment. But they were needed for development etc. And concept of free autovias was created.
I personally use example of both Poland and Spain as basic test of any European road atlas. If autovias and Polish expressways are clearly shown as motorways or motorways like then it is worth further investigation. If not it is a loo roll, nothing else
bartek76 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #10680
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartek76 View Post
Well, S-roads are, to be honest, motorways with everything but name. It is quite similar to Spain with autopistas and autovias, and more, the reasons for such divison are relatively similar as well.
In Poland motorways were supposed to be bulit by private companies who would then recover their expenses plus profit via tolls (with government support of course). And our regulators had created (in early nineties) very strict rules for motorways, probably the most strict in the world (very wide lanes, huge distance between junctions etc), in the end of the day they were spending somebody else money.
And perhaps because of that such motorways did not materialize, with one exception of a part of A2. So our authorities had to think hard with a perspective of coming el dorado of EU money for roads. They decided to leave the earlier planned basic network of tolled motorways (A1, A2 and A4) to be build either by private buisness or by state now. And they created new concept of expressways, to be build by state (for EU money mostly) but with reduced to normal not ridiculous requirements, and at least for time being, not tolled. Those expressways network is to be additional to aforementioned motorway one especially that the latter was from day one criticized as not sufficient.
Quite similar to Spain where tolled autopistas were mostly build by private money and then there was a problem of radial roads from Madrid where traffic levels (at least in 70 and 80) did not justify any sound private investment. But they were needed for development etc. And concept of free autovias was created.
I personally use example of both Poland and Spain as basic test of any European road atlas. If autovias and Polish expressways are clearly shown as motorways or motorways like then it is worth further investigation. If not it is a loo roll, nothing else
Hahahahahaha, great!! Just great!!

I was thinking the same example, comparing to the same situation in Spain. The history backwards is slightly different in the case of Spain, but the result is sort of similar. And I do exactly the same with road atlas. I test their quality just for looking at the expressways not considered official motorways around Europe... usually it is quite disappointing. For example now, Google Maps is kind of crap... before it was much better.

At the end of the day, the S-roads and A-roads are kind of the same: motorways and supermotorways. That's all.

Thank everybody for your explanations.
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autostrady, expressways, highway, motorways, polish motorways, polish roads, polskie drogi, road

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium