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Old October 30th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #10861
Kemo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Then, what is the average cost of motorway/expressway construction per kilometer in Poland?
Check here for full list: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=4637

Statistic made by Maya83

Example - contracts from 2010



The costs (per km) are in the last column, in PLN.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 05:51 PM   #10862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
A4 Debica - Rzeszow (37km) opens today:
and the signage...

(GDDKiA's facebook https://www.facebook.com/gddkia)

Last edited by Dantiscum; October 30th, 2013 at 05:57 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 05:56 PM   #10863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Statistic made by Maya83

Example - contracts from 2010

The costs (per km) are in the last column, in PLN.
Interesting, that's a more appropriate sample than the European Court of Auditors used. The statistical outlier is S2 in Warszawa with a cost of 86 million PLN per kilometer, but its effect on the average cost is less due to the larger sample, quite unlike the E.C.A. approach (one statistical outlier in Spain caused the average of all projects to be 100% higher).
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Old October 30th, 2013, 06:24 PM   #10864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Check here for full list: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=4637

Statistic made by Maya83

Example - contracts from 2010
Interesting, by the way, thank you for your contribution.

It's make around 8,4 mln EUR to build 1km of motorway in Poland in 2010 (according to current currency rate).

I would like to point that when comparing the German A20 with Polish A2, I don't see many relative differences in terms of topography or built on land, maybe costs don't come from there?

Anyway, That is still expensive when compared to previously mentioned Spain, where 1 km of motorway costs is nearly the half of that in Poland, knowing they have many mountains and tunnels; quite astonishing.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #10865
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Actually the far majority of Spanish motorways were built on the flat Meseta with almost no land acquisition costs and very few bridges and tunnels. I've seen autovías being constructed as low as € 2.5 million per kilometer, that is rare even in Africa.

It would be best to make a sample with various classes to be compared, e.g. "urban", "rural" and "mountain rural". As you can see in the list, S2 in Warsaw is quite a bit more expensive than other A or S-roads. Also, S-roads have more interchanges than A-roads, so overall construction cost per kilometer is quite similar.

If there's one item Poland can save money on, it's the absurd amount of noise barriers.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #10866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Anyway, That is still expensive when compared to previously mentioned Spain, where 1 km of motorway costs is nearly the half of that in Poland, knowing they have many mountains and tunnels; quite astonishing.
Most Polish A/S roads have 12m wide median to add a third lane in the future. This raises the cost. Do Spanish roads have this?
______________

By the way, two tenders have been announced today:
- 16km of S5 motorway south of A2 junction
- 15km of S8 motorway between Zambrów and Białystok

Both roads will have 12m wide median.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #10867
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Tender for another section of S8 between Warsaw and Bialystok was announced (Mezenin to Jezewo - 14.2 km in length).
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Old October 30th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #10868
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Another cost factor is the consistency of soil and relative height of the water table. Many projects in Poland involve larger earth works than in Spain or Germany due to the need for sub surface preparation to a greater degree.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:03 PM   #10869
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Today, one more new tender for construction of S-5 expressway from Poznań to Wronczyn (total length of 14 km) (Wronczyn is south of Poznań) was also aunched.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #10870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metacatfry View Post
Another cost factor is the consistency of soil and relative height of the water table. Many projects in Poland involve larger earth works than in Spain or Germany due to the need for sub surface preparation to a greater degree.
Like in Żuławy region, so called "Mała Holandia", area which was inhabited by Dutch, and resembles Holland, in terms of architecture and the structure of its land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBu%C5%82awy

Last edited by markfos; October 30th, 2013 at 08:18 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 09:16 PM   #10871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metacatfry View Post
Another cost factor is the consistency of soil and relative height of the water table. Many projects in Poland involve larger earth works than in Spain or Germany due to the need for sub surface preparation to a greater degree.
That is definitely a factor. Motorways do not need sophisticated embankments and drainage in the arid interior of Spain. Settlement and embankments are a significant issue in the Netherlands as well.

Also, Poland seems to have many small streams which turn into flooded areas in the spring. This requires more and longer bridges than elsewhere. The Mszana bridge is a good example, but also S3 and S11 low bridges in flat rural areas. You can't just go building embankments everywhere.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 11:33 PM   #10872
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Updated map, s'il vous plait

from here: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/eng.html

changes:
A4 (Dębica Wschód - Rzeszów Centralny) - operational
S5 (Głuchowo - Wronczyn) - tender
S5 (Radomicko - Kaczkowo) - tender
S8 (Mężenin - Jeżewo) - tender

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Old October 30th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #10873
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They are really moving forward with S5 recently.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 12:04 AM   #10874
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In my opinion S5 is a priority. It connects 5 major cities in Poland - Wroclaw-Poznan-Bydgoszcz plus Torun and Gdansk via A1. Yet there is almost nothing done between A1 and Gniezno.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 03:56 PM   #10875
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The best part of this article.
Quote:
Mr Sullivan says this reflects his experience dealing with GDDKiA. Rather than seek an amicable solution, he said, officials preferred to let courts decide.

It was a culture shock from Ireland where, he says, the National Roads Authority (NRA) resolves disagreements quickly and behind closed doors.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 04:02 PM   #10876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
In my opinion S5 is a priority.
Our government, unfortunately, doesn't seem to share this opinion.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 04:12 PM   #10877
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Driving video from A4 section opened yesterday:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarfi View Post
Dzisiejszy przejazd autostradą od Rzeszowa do Dębicy

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Old October 31st, 2013, 05:08 PM   #10878
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Virtually the entire section is lined with sound isolating screens
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Old October 31st, 2013, 05:48 PM   #10879
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Any news regarding any kind of construction between Warsaw<->Katowice?

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Old October 31st, 2013, 05:55 PM   #10880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmieciu View Post
The best part of this article.
Well, it's preferrable if there is an easy solution, but as GDDKiA published before, some of these construction companies that got into trouble demanded huge increases in payment, in some cases nearly 80% of the value of all their contracts combined. You can't deal stuff like that in an amicable way, those are just ridiculous demands and a case for the courts to deal with.
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