daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 4th, 2013, 03:32 AM   #10901
Strzala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wyślij sobie pocztowkę stamtąd
Posts: 11,048
Likes (Received): 8884

Aleja Solidarności, one of accesses to Lublin bypass:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCG_SYutkeY


Dragados progress on Lublin bypass, junction "Lublin Rudnik" and on new entrance to the city from North. Comparishion between 22.10.2013 and 03.11.2013:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntu3vJQ445w
__________________
Czarne dziury się podają za polarne zorze.
Strzala no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 6th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #10902
rakcancer
Registered User
 
rakcancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: XYZ
Posts: 1,198
Likes (Received): 1170

Example of disastrous overbuilding of noise barriers. This bridge was open recently near town of Brzeg Dolny in Lower Silesia. As you see in the satellite image there is nothing to be protected from noise, unless I am wrong , maybe fish and frogs became so sensitive since we are in EU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by panwalen View Post
Znalezione na YT. Uwaga bo strasznie trzęsie


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
rakcancer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #10903
John Maynard
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lausanne (CH); Warsaw (PL)
Posts: 534
Likes (Received): 376

All these noise barriers seems crazy and unnecessary. I used to live in Warsaw, 300 meters near a main railway line; everyday I got used to wake up at 4 AM because of the horn honking of trains that were passing and made an awful amount of noise (especially freight trains), but there was not a single noise barrier in place, and they aren't till now. Maybe, what is to blame is corruption? I don't believe that a single carriageway country road without much traffic deserve such an exaggeration, in the middle of nowhere, while inhabitants of cities suffers from enormous amount of disturbance, without any protection. Let's discuss it.

On the other way, as for Switzerland, many people that lived near motorways had to (and still have to) fight in courts to get some noise protection. Per example, a city like Morges which was cut in the middle by a motorway since 1963, had to wait till the mid-1990's to get some noise barriers put in place. Also, there are still very few noise protection for trains (but they are rarely horn honking here). So till quite recently, it's wasn't better either.

Last edited by John Maynard; November 7th, 2013 at 04:14 PM.
John Maynard no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #10904
rakcancer
Registered User
 
rakcancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: XYZ
Posts: 1,198
Likes (Received): 1170

I am not in total opposition to noise barriers but there is a reason and limitations to use them. They neither fit to rural areas as in example above nor in the middle of cities in densely built areas. The ONLY places for them like it is in other countries, is to placed along motorways in suburban areas. That is it. In the meantime I just learn that this maddens continuous. There is going to be built noise barriers according to the project of widening of Wołoska st, which is one of the main streets in Warsaw, in the middle of city.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
rakcancer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #10905
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5287

The problem with noise barriers is not due to corruption but to a still backward legal system that allows anyone to block any development unless they get exactly what they want. There is a massive level of paranoia and hysteria promoted by all media that reinforce the Polish persecution complex (persecuted by businessmen and government), so the investors are building these silly barriers to eliminate opposition to essential road projects.
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

Kuras77 liked this post
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #10906
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,569
Likes (Received): 19356

Excessive use of noise barriers effectively puts Poland behind another "iron curtain". In a few years you can't see much of the country while traveling through. It's simply madness.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #10907
rakcancer
Registered User
 
rakcancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: XYZ
Posts: 1,198
Likes (Received): 1170

It reminds me a bit of lobbing system in USA. What was the reason of creating such a strict regulation which are beyond anything in EU? Please, don't tell me that an environmental issues made their way here. It must to be supported by those who made that noise barriers. They are clear winners here.
rakcancer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2013, 07:04 PM   #10908
bewu1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PL - Warszawa (Wilanów)
Posts: 4,814
Likes (Received): 2053

New tender for construction of a S-19 expressway section - western bypass of Lublin was lauched today. The length is 9.8 km.
__________________

Strzala, panthiocodin liked this post
bewu1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2013, 10:12 PM   #10909
Strzala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wyślij sobie pocztowkę stamtąd
Posts: 11,048
Likes (Received): 8884

Quote:
Originally Posted by bewu1 View Post
New tender for construction of a S-19 expressway section - western bypass of Lublin was lauched today. The length is 9.8 km.


Green section:


__________________
Czarne dziury się podają za polarne zorze.
Strzala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #10910
rakcancer
Registered User
 
rakcancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: XYZ
Posts: 1,198
Likes (Received): 1170

Lublin is getting 3/4 of full ring. Congrats!
__________________

Strzala liked this post
rakcancer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #10911
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strzala View Post
Green section:
Why is the section b/n Wezel Plouszowice and Wezel Dabrowica missing?
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2013, 10:53 PM   #10912
Kemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Segiet
Posts: 10,717
Likes (Received): 18742

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Why is the section b/n Wezel Plouszowice and Wezel Dabrowica missing?
Because the map is inaccurate.
It is almost impossible to find a 100% correct map of planned or constructed roads prepared by our "journalists".
Kemo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #10913
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5287

congrats Lublin, an amazing progressive city with a very bright city ahead of it and this ring road will no doubt improve it's functioning.
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2013, 12:13 AM   #10914
Strzala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wyślij sobie pocztowkę stamtąd
Posts: 11,048
Likes (Received): 8884

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Why is the section b/n Wezel Plouszowice and Wezel Dabrowica missing?
Srry,my bad. Of course announced tender is from "Węzeł Dabrowica" to "Węzeł Konopnica" section
__________________
Czarne dziury się podają za polarne zorze.

Last edited by Strzala; November 9th, 2013 at 12:18 AM.
Strzala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #10915
Hoff
O-P-E
 
Hoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 843rd BW
Posts: 793
Likes (Received): 524

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
The problem with noise barriers is not due to corruption but to a still backward legal system that allows anyone to block any development unless they get exactly what they want. There is a massive level of paranoia and hysteria promoted by all media that reinforce the Polish persecution complex (persecuted by businessmen and government), so the investors are building these silly barriers to eliminate opposition to essential road projects.
None of this is true.

The main legal reasons for building such amounts of noise barriers are:
- noise levels are measured at the external walls of buildings - so other noise reduction means like quiet windows are useless
- noise reduction norms also apply for industrial and service areas
and (probably) the most important one:
- noise barrriers must protect both built-up areas and areas designated for potential future development (hence the large amounts of barriers protecting woods or meadows).
__________________

ChrisZwolle, Sponsor, kapturek liked this post
Hoff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #10916
ka__zet
yet another transit geek
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Metropolia Bydgoska, Bydgoszcz
Posts: 3,357
Likes (Received): 599

One of the oft-forgot things - future noise level is directly related to design speed of the road. So pretty much all those lovely G/GP class pseudo-motorways going through areas marked as residential get noise barriers.

A lot of people do not realize that upping speed limit to 80 from 50 has lots of design consequences.
ka__zet no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2013, 08:54 AM   #10917
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5287

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff View Post
None of this is true.

The main legal reasons for building such amounts of noise barriers are:
- noise levels are measured at the external walls of buildings - so other noise reduction means like quiet windows are useless
- noise reduction norms also apply for industrial and service areas
and (probably) the most important one:
- noise barrriers must protect both built-up areas and areas designated for potential future development (hence the large amounts of barriers protecting woods or meadows).
I see my apologies for the error. But then hasn't the president announced a change in these standards to eliminate the need for these screens in many cases and the blight they cause on the landscape?
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #10918
rakcancer
Registered User
 
rakcancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: XYZ
Posts: 1,198
Likes (Received): 1170

I think it is already changed. These recent barriers come from the time of that strict regulations.
rakcancer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2013, 05:27 PM   #10919
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,569
Likes (Received): 19356

Very nice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starver View Post
121.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2013, 06:25 PM   #10920
Hoff
O-P-E
 
Hoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 843rd BW
Posts: 793
Likes (Received): 524

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
I see my apologies for the error. But then hasn't the president announced a change in these standards to eliminate the need for these screens in many cases and the blight they cause on the landscape?
They simply lowered the noise standards, keeping the aforementioned rules in force. So basically they will still build these barriers in the middle of nowhere, but at the same time some built-up areas will be left unprotected. One bad solution was replaced by other bad solution :roll:

If they (the government) really cared about this situation, they would have changed at least some of those regulations - e.g. distinguising between built-up areas and areas designated for future development in spatial plans and limiting noise protection only to the former would notably reduce the amount of barriers installed. But I guess that lobbysts are busy at the Ministry of Environment.
Hoff no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autostrady, expressways, highway, motorways, polish motorways, polish roads, polskie drogi, road

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium