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Old January 8th, 2014, 12:24 AM   #11341
rakcancer
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3 649 PLN
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Nett salary doesn't make sense since everyone pays different taxes.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 12:43 AM   #11342
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Average net wage is around 2700 zł.

Median net wage is around 2200 zł.

Minimum net wage is around 1200 zł.

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Old January 8th, 2014, 11:38 AM   #11343
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Well, I took a well payed average job based on a master degree (for these jobs i know more or less the incomes) and compared it with a similar job in Germany. I don't know if they count into the statistics part-time jobbers, retired people and unemployed people and black working people???

Nevertheless, the point is: Compared to a monthly income, in Poland you pay much lower fines than in most other European countries (especially western ones).
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Old January 8th, 2014, 11:43 AM   #11344
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It will probably change soon. Government started war against speeding, drunk drivers.

Yesterday Prime minister Tusk proposed fines for drunk drivers. Minimal fine-1000 euro. And fines will be up to 25 000 euro.

Last edited by MonteChristo; January 8th, 2014 at 11:53 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 12:08 PM   #11345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteChristo View Post
It will probably change soon. Government started war against speeding, drunk drivers.

Yesterday Prime minister Tusk proposed fines for drunk drivers. Minimal fine-1000 euro. And fines will be up to 25 000 euro.
In my opinion, the penalty for drink driving should be confiscation of the vehicle. That would be fair and, hopefully, effective.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 12:46 PM   #11346
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To be exact the Pm announced the following:
-after first time beeing caught driving drunk (over 0,5 ‰): minimum 1200 euro fine, name of the driver will be published, sunspension of the driving license from 3 to 15 years,
- after second time: minimum 2400 euro fine, sunspension of the driving license from 5 to 15 years,
- by repeating cases also a jail sentence without suspension,
- breathalyser as an obligatory equipment of every vehicle,
- driving without driving license will be crime (if you don't have it at all of course, not if you just leave it at home),
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Old January 8th, 2014, 04:34 PM   #11347
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Quote:
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In my opinion, the penalty for drink driving should be confiscation of the vehicle. That would be fair and, hopefully, effective.
Stealing a car by anyone can't be accaptable. Think about drunk driver's family too.
EOT, let's back to the topic.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 05:08 PM   #11348
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Drinking and driving is not the major reason for road deaths. As far as I know it's around 10%. And it is generally not accepted by the people and not many are doing it. Therefore I can understand that this decision of politicians is rather a popular decision.
Major reason for road deaths is speeding and as written before it is generally accepted by a lot of people. Increasing fines here is rather an unpopular decision. I heard some while ago that they wanted to introduce "revoking license instantly after double speeding" but haven't heard of it ever since.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 12:55 AM   #11349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niemiec w Polsce View Post
Drinking and driving is not the major reason for road deaths. As far as I know it's around 10%. And it is generally not accepted by the people and not many are doing it. Therefore I can understand that this decision of politicians is rather a popular decision.
Major reason for road deaths is speeding and as written before it is generally accepted by a lot of people. Increasing fines here is rather an unpopular decision. I heard some while ago that they wanted to introduce "revoking license instantly after double speeding" but haven't heard of it ever since.
Is speed in excess of sign number a major issue for deaths? Usually the fastest drivers are safest (statistically safest speed is 85th - 95th percentile range) and the German experience would suggest it irrelevant.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #11350
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Is speed in excess of sign number a major issue for deaths? Usually the fastest drivers are safest (statistically safest speed is 85th - 95th percentile range) and the German experience would suggest it irrelevant.
LOL? where did you find these stats?
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:07 AM   #11351
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LOL? where did you find these stats?
This is from famous study by Solomon, et al in 1964, but same trend has been shown in other studies on same subject. In general as result speed limit if necessary is recommended at 85th percentile round up to nearest 10 km/h. It is well-documented phenomenon, at least in North America (but the government frequently ignores and sets limit by fiat!)

I had issues finding study in particular but here is some reference to it in a book - http://books.google.ca/books?id=Z_w5...entile&f=false

Here are some other good references:
http://www.motorists.org/speed-limits/studies
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:36 AM   #11352
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Most roads in Poland are crap, you can shift the curve left ( = WAY down) for those ones.

The actual 'peak accident' figure is dynamic and is more reflective of how to set Minimum speeds on 2x2 roads than speed per se.

It proves that slow drivers on 120kph roads are dangerous, it also proves that faster ( but still relatively slow) drivers on 130kph roads are equally dangerous.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:50 AM   #11353
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I am not sure... remember most of Solomon's work was on 1x1 standard highways with 1950's cars, 1950's tyres in the US, probably standard of roads was competitive (in design, if not pavement quality) with PL DK-roads and the better cars maybe mean we can shift right
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:57 AM   #11354
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BULSHIT.Polish roads are not f#*('in crap. About 80% of them are in good condition. Only local roads are worse. But saying that polish roads are crap is #&!(*^ stereotype. As well as hundreds of others acording to Poland and Poles.
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Last edited by arct; January 9th, 2014 at 02:35 AM.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:12 AM   #11355
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You have a valid point. Especially on the recent autostrady, I am not sure if I ever experienced such nice roads (but... they are new) anywhere, much better than Germany.

I did have fun once, trying to drive from Poznan to let's say Lubin, or Legnica. So OK I make to Leszno on DK5 / S5. Then DW road. Nice road, no problem, then, massive bridge, wide lanes, shiny lines, sidewalks made of beautiful bricks, in middle of nowhere, bridge even had a weather station. Getting to end of bridge, there is sign "road narrows", lines disappear, and road becomes narrow so much I wonder if I will break car mirrors on the trees on either side And the car was only Astra!

But, hardly any traffic on road (if there was, would almost need to stop), and experience was very pleasurable. But it really showed the difference between "Nowa Polska" and the old days.

There are a lot of DK roads just overloaded with traffic, but so many roads are in construction, there isn't much that can be done better. But if you want to go from say Zgorzelec to say Sandomierz via Krakow, it seems like the trip to Krakow takes some minutes (via A4) and then to Sandomierz via 79, 3 hours... in a way possibly true, as you drive 200 km/h to Krakow and then 50 km/h the rest...

Last edited by Kanadzie; January 9th, 2014 at 02:18 AM.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 03:07 AM   #11356
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Quote:
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BULSHIT.Polish roads are not f#*('in crap. About 80% of them are in good condition. Only local roads are worse. But saying that polish roads are crap is #&!(*^ stereotype. As well as hundreds of others acording to Poland and Poles v.
Most Polish roads ARE local roads. Umm and

Most German French etc roads are local roads too and and another

They are not suitable for continual 80kph+ speeds whatever country they is in.

OK
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Old January 9th, 2014, 03:13 AM   #11357
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Local means= REALY REALY local. Not vovoidian (DW) roads. Do you understand now? And how many times, when and where you've been to Poland?
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Last edited by arct; January 9th, 2014 at 03:19 AM.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 09:55 AM   #11358
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Highways A1 Toruń - Włocławek



Expressway S8 - Syców - Wieluń

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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:19 PM   #11359
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New bridge in Rzeszów (Wisłok river) will be build by Bilfinger.

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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:31 PM   #11360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Most roads in Poland are crap, you can shift the curve left ( = WAY down) for those ones.

The actual 'peak accident' figure is dynamic and is more reflective of how to set Minimum speeds on 2x2 roads than speed per se.

It proves that slow drivers on 120kph roads are dangerous, it also proves that faster ( but still relatively slow) drivers on 130kph roads are equally dangerous.
That depends. Motorways and expressways are in very good condition, national ones (DK) are mostly good, voivodenship ones (DW) are mostly decent and local ones are crap indeed. Beside this we can observe a big progress since we became a European union member and comparing to the rest of postcommunism countries they are not bad.
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