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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:52 PM   #11361
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That depends. Motorways and expressways are in very good condition, national ones (DK) are mostly good, voivodenship ones (DW) are mostly decent and local ones are crap indeed. Beside this we can observe a big progress since we became a European union member and comparing to the rest of postcommunism countries they are not bad.
Indeed, but as there are 5 times more Gmina (Local) roads in Poland than National Roads/Motorways/Expressways/ Voivodenship roads combined my point ( again) is that a minimum speed approach derived from a Solomon Curve is not appropriate for most roads . Hard limits must be used for maximum speeds instead.

The Solomon Curve gives a principle by which a minimum speed of 60km on a Motorway and 50-60km on a 2+2 Expressway should be enforced as the slower cars make the roads dangerous for most users of those roads.

In fact there should be a minimum speed of 80kph in the middle lane of a Polish 3+3 Motorway and a minimum speed of 100kph in the fast lane, such is the generally ultra high quality of those roads bar the as yes unrebuilt Autobahn bits west of Wroclaw.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 05:48 PM   #11362
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I guess the point has been completely mistaken. Exceeding speed is a major reason for deadly accidents in all countries. Consequences are loosing control of the vehicle, no time/space for reacting/avoiding accidents, higher injury rates especially for pedestrians and bicyle-drivers, miscalculting speed of approaching vehicles, and many more. Sorry, but driving 100+ in a city (and this is quiet common) doesn't seem anything than safe to me. Actually 10 km/h difference can make huge differences for all traffic participants in critical situations.
On the other side, seeing people driving much slower is of course as well dangerous due to the fact that they provoke risky overtaking and lead to misjudging speed and akkordeon effects (first one brakes a little hard, second harder, third harder and so on).
Additionally I can observe a lot of ridicilous speed limits in Poland. How can you put in the middle of highway a speed limit of 40km/h. Or Stryków interchange. This was build with a turbine design which should allow higher curve speeds. And what? They have put there 60km/h signs
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Old January 9th, 2014, 09:34 PM   #11363
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BULSHIT.Polish roads are not f#*('in crap. About 80% of them are in good condition. Only local roads are worse. But saying that polish roads are crap is #&!(*^ stereotype. As well as hundreds of others acording to Poland and Poles.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1310317

On the map i can't see 80% in good condition ... In addition, most of the roads in Poland it local roads, and these really are terrible. Motorways and expressways in Poland are in excellent condition. The rest of the roads, firmly sticks out. So do not be angry.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #11364
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That's true but national roads (DK) support around 60% of domestic traffic so despite the fact being the minority in Polish roads they are (aprat from the highways/expressways) the most important roads in Poland.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 10:01 PM   #11365
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Yes, people tend to drive short distances on minor roads. You usually don't drive 100 km on some DW-road.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 11:06 PM   #11366
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Yes, people tend to drive short distances on minor roads. You usually don't drive 100 km on some DW-road.
Some people prefer DW because of much lower traffic volume than on parallel DK's.
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Old January 10th, 2014, 12:56 AM   #11367
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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Indeed, but as there are 5 times more Gmina (Local) roads in Poland than National Roads/Motorways/Expressways/ Voivodenship roads combined my point ( again) is that a minimum speed approach derived from a Solomon Curve is not appropriate for most roads . Hard limits must be used for maximum speeds instead.

The Solomon Curve gives a principle by which a minimum speed of 60km on a Motorway and 50-60km on a 2+2 Expressway should be enforced as the slower cars make the roads dangerous for most users of those roads.

In fact there should be a minimum speed of 80kph in the middle lane of a Polish 3+3 Motorway and a minimum speed of 100kph in the fast lane, such is the generally ultra high quality of those roads bar the as yes unrebuilt Autobahn bits west of Wroclaw.
Why would road design or condition affect solomon-type speed? In any event the speed distribution is still there. On a perfect 2-lane highway the 85th percentile might be 120, and on a crap road, it might be 75. That doesn't make the methodology wrong.

Even so, what you suggest is to make limit that is not followed, which is not too logical. With 85th percentile round up, and police ignoring excess of 10 or 20 km/h (trivial), drivers who risk ticket would be in the dangerous side of the speed distribution.

In any event, considering the safety of driving, where accidents are rare to individuals, it should be self-evident that vast majority of drivers are competent and thereby competent enough to decide appropriate speed, which they do.

Unrebuilt A4 west of Wroclaw seems fine enough save the brak in the awarjnego
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Old January 10th, 2014, 01:25 AM   #11368
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Someone travelling at 130kph and encountering a 50kph in front of them on a motorway has to slow down by 80kph and quick ( and everyone behind them) . If you force the car in front to travel faster then the relative speed gap is lower ...and less dangerous.

Motorway minimum speeds are generally set to low for modern cars in Europe. Even a 1 litre Yaris with 4 people in it can manage a steady 100kph ....not like the 1960s when it was a Citroen 2cv and could probably manage 80kph downhill with a wind following its ass and 50kph uphill.

Dammit a 1.6 litre Polski Fiat could hardly manage 100kph if I remember those tanks correctly
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Old January 10th, 2014, 01:31 AM   #11369
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But on motorway the real issue is the trucks, one going 91 km/h passing other at 89 km/h because of EU limiter regulation (=idiotic)

You travel at 200 km/h even and then need to slow fast, then wait, then accelerate again. Except most people in EU have cars with no power and it takes so long to get back the speed I missed my V8 so much... however, the speed differential was huge but seemed a non-issue, just slow with brakes.
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Old January 10th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #11370
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Dammit a 1.6 litre Polski Fiat could hardly manage 100kph if I remember those tanks correctly
It's 0.6 litre with furious 22HP.
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Old January 10th, 2014, 06:12 AM   #11371
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But on motorway the real issue is the trucks, one going 91 km/h passing other at 89 km/h because of EU limiter regulation (=idiotic)

You travel at 200 km/h even and then need to slow fast, then wait, then accelerate again. Except most people in EU have cars with no power and it takes so long to get back the speed I missed my V8 so much... however, the speed differential was huge but seemed a non-issue, just slow with brakes.
Yes-trucks overtaking each other are dangerous. For me it shoud be forbidden for trucks to overtake. They are creating dangerous situation-and when they finally manage to overtake (which takes centuries for them) they go only slightly faster. There is no logic in it for me.
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Old January 10th, 2014, 09:35 AM   #11372
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Yes-trucks overtaking each other are dangerous. For me it shoud be forbidden for trucks to overtake. They are creating dangerous situation-and when they finally manage to overtake (which takes centuries for them) they go only slight faster. There is no logic for me.
In my opinion, trucks should never be allowed to overtake each other on 2x2 or smaller roads. When there are three or more lanes, trucks should be permitted to overtake only in the second slowest lane.
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Old January 10th, 2014, 12:02 PM   #11373
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New bridge in Rzeszów (Wisłok river) will be build by Bilfinger.

Like a twin of a bridge on AOW.
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Old January 10th, 2014, 08:23 PM   #11374
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Great! Always nice to read that a German company wins a construction tender in Poland (or somewhere else in the EU).
That way German EU-money comes back to Germany, German companies have a lot of work and Poland gets new high-class infrastructure nearly for free.

A win-win situation!
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Old January 11th, 2014, 01:11 AM   #11375
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But truck needs to pass, in case of too-slow traffic... but because of limiter, can't pass very well. Why not just get rid of EU-limiter?

Where I live I never noticed the problem until the government forced trucks to fit limiter (at 105 km/h) and since I get stuck behind, once, I spent 20 minutes stuck behind one and next to the other.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 02:16 AM   #11376
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But truck needs to pass, in case of too-slow traffic...
No, trucks don't need to pass. Anything slower than a truck should not be on the motorway or expressway.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 02:19 AM   #11377
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It happens on heavy rain for example. I drive slow in those conditions, maybe also lower then 80. I got overtaken by trucks in those conditions...
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Old January 11th, 2014, 02:45 AM   #11378
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It happens on heavy rain for example. I drive slow in those conditions, maybe also lower then 80. I got overtaken by trucks in those conditions...
In rain, snow, or any other weather conditions, the safe speed for a truck is never higher than for a safe car. If a truck passes a car, either the car is too slow or the truck is too fast.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 04:02 AM   #11379
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Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

Great! Always nice to read that a German company wins a construction tender in Poland (or somewhere else in the EU).
That way German EU-money comes back to Germany, German companies have a lot of work and Poland gets new high-class infrastructure nearly for free.

A win-win situation!
For free ? You must be joking...
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Old January 11th, 2014, 11:41 AM   #11380
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But truck needs to pass, in case of too-slow traffic... but because of limiter, can't pass very well. Why not just get rid of EU-limiter?

Where I live I never noticed the problem until the government forced trucks to fit limiter (at 105 km/h) and since I get stuck behind, once, I spent 20 minutes stuck behind one and next to the other.
The flow of truck traffic in Europe is quite different than in North America. For instance, it's quite common in the U.S. to see trucks passing cars and even avoiding the right lane in urban areas. This is rather uncommon in Europe, where trucks are virtually always the slowest vehicles on the road (most countries limit trucks at 80 or 90 km/h) and stick to the rightmost lane except when briefly* passing others.

* by briefly I mean that trucks move back to the right lane as soon as they passed the other truck, instead of continuing in one of the left lanes for some time to pass another vehicle further down the road.
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