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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:20 PM   #11401
Sunfuns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beck's View Post
Foreign capital has made us significantly richer country (and others such as Czech rep., Słovakia or Hungary) for the last 25 years because we were completely deprived own by communism. Moreover number of company belonging to Polish owners exporting their products to western countries like Solaris (producer of buses and trams) is growing now. Apart from that some western companies locate increasingly in Poland also R&D centres, so I don't think is so bad.
I agree with that and Poland is doing better than most East European countries anyway. I just wanted to say that in order to catch Germany in incomes and living standards domestically owned industry with high added value will be needed. Ireland is a cautionary tale on what can happen with over reliance on foreign capital. It's not as risky in Poland due to large internal market, but still...
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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:35 PM   #11402
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Yeah, that's true, we need more own companies and I hope the number of them will be still growing.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #11403
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It wasn't better before, but you are fooling yourself if you think that the origin of corporate giants do not matter at all. To become a rich country (as opposed to just middle income like most of Eastern Europe) you need your own multinationals. I can't think of any exceptions for reasonably sized countries (>1 million inhabitants) which do not sit on an enormous patch of crude oil. The reason for that is that the highest paid jobs in management, design and R&D almost invariably stay in the original country + 1-2 locations elsewhere. Every rich Western or East Asian country has their own world leading companies.

I work for a large multinational. We produce in many places and sell virtually everywhere, but R&D and factories with the highest added value are in Switzerland, UK and USA. A little bit of R&D also in India and China due to their size.
You're looking at it backwards. You can only build a multinational corporation based in a particular area if you have major amounts of capital in that area. Wealth needs to come first! Otherwise... it doesn't happen.

But in the global economy, a multinational corporation will only be able to headquarter in an area with a favorable environment, foremost. Even huge American companies, like ebay, are incorporated as AG in Germany! (and offices, in USA) If a company has choice between paying 10% tax and 20% tax depending on where the incorporation is, he will never make the wrong choice...

There are many successful Polish companies, as long as the government can maintain stable and correct policies (hands-off) then they will grow. It is not important to have everything in PL made by Polish companies, which can only happen by trade barriers and reducing wealth and competitiveness of Polish economy. PL is a certain percentage of the global economy, so the ideal should be to have a certain percentage of everything in the world made by Polish companies. Germany has done that well, everyone knows and loves German cars for example (and Polish wodka!). But nobody in Germany wastes time to make cellular phones for example, others can do it better.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:56 PM   #11404
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Let's hope more and more Polish companies will appear on the list of 20 biggest in Central-Europe.

Anyway, this discussion should take place in an economic topic. Nevertheless I myself think this is an interesting part of EU-funds that isn't known, or better, realised in the West. Go to a Dutch or Belgian, bah, German or English newspaper comment section - I know it is bad for your heart and you might lose your believe in common sense or the intelligent human being -, but you will always hear multiple comments: "Oh, those Poles take our jobs and we give them 100 billion Euro.", "They should shut up, we're paying them anyway." People should realise that many Western companies can grow as well and that the funds invested in Poland also come back to Western countries in some degree.

Otherwise I myself am also aware of the importance of strong national brands and I hope that every new year will bring us stronger Polish companies. But, like f.e. Beck's said: we can be proud with companies like Solaris, whose buses are to be found in Berlin, Rome, Dubai and every bigger German city and many other places, or Pesa, which has signed a contract for 470 trains with the Deutsche Bahn, a historic moment for Polish industry. I believe in the potential of Polish companies. But the most important in all of this is that every Polish company will have excellent roads which it can use to conquer the European consumer market .
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Old January 11th, 2014, 10:56 PM   #11405
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Oh, did the thread name change to [PL] Economy or something?


Some pictures from S3 motorway near Skwierzyna and Gorzów Wielkopolski:
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And no, most of these pylons are NOT for acoustic screens.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 07:26 AM   #11406
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What are they for in that case?
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Old January 12th, 2014, 11:36 AM   #11407
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I think it will be a fence.
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Valar Morghulis :)
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Old January 12th, 2014, 01:04 PM   #11408
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Bats.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 01:06 PM   #11409
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Yes.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 04:19 PM   #11410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
I wrote "nearly for free". How much does the EU pay for road construction projects in Poland? Around 70-80% of all costs?
Yes EU co-financing can reach from 30 to 85% but in the same time You are forgetting that Poland also pays its due to EU budget. Estimates say that in 50% co-financing 25% is actually from Polish fees while rest is from other countries in which the biggest payer is Germany and on second place UK. The remaining states mostly take from EU what they pay not to mention countries which receive more. So for the local economy it isn't OK to let foreign companies do such contracts but thanks to EU and present Poland position it doesn't make big difference as "help" money are floating. But when Poland will reach status in which it will take from EU the same money as it pays it may hurt economy as partially happened in Spain.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 06:01 PM   #11411
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You're joking, right? If a police officer says that you were hindering traffic at 40 km/h on a motorway or expressway, a judge that would find you innocent would be rarer than roses in Antarctica. The maximum speed of your vehicle has nothing at all to do with it. If just one other vehicle had to slow down because you were driving 40 km/h, you would have been hindering.
Let's sum it up:
- you can ride a motorcycle on a motorway - CHECK
- your motocycle if able to reach 40kph on flat surface - CHECK
- you're riding with your 6y/o in the back, to speed limit for you is 40kph EVERYWHERE - CHECK

I'd be surprised if someone got sentenced for driving 40kph in such situation, since it is to the letter of the law. You can't be hindering the traffic if you are legal to drive on a particular road and you're driving at maximum legal speed.

It is legal. It's just extremely unwise to do.

Last edited by rav00; January 12th, 2014 at 06:18 PM.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 06:53 PM   #11412
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You can't be hindering the traffic if you are legal to drive on a particular road and you're driving at maximum legal speed.
Absolutely false. If a single vehicle has to slow down (below the speed limit) for you, you're hindering. If a police officer writes you a citation for hindering at 40 km/h, a judge will convict you if you go to court. Nothing in the law says you have the right to carry a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway. The absence of an explicit prohibition against carrying a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway does not exempt anyone from the prohibition against hindering traffic.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #11413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Absolutely false. If a single vehicle has to slow down (below the speed limit) for you, you're hindering. If a police officer writes you a citation for hindering at 40 km/h, a judge will convict you if you go to court. Nothing in the law says you have the right to carry a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway. The absence of an explicit prohibition against carrying a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway does not exempt anyone from the prohibition against hindering traffic.
I doubt it, the motorcycle would stay on right lane surely, leaving left lane for simple overtaking so no hindrance... while on DK road, limit 90, clearly is allowed to ride, and there hindrance may be real.

but also worthwhile to consider intelligence of people, has anyone ever actually done this? Normally we see only motorcycle with one rider at 240 km/h not 40
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Old January 12th, 2014, 08:22 PM   #11414
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I doubt it, the motorcycle would stay on right lane surely, leaving left lane for simple overtaking so no hindrance.
In light traffic, where no one has to slow below the speed limit as vehicles are passing, there would be no hinderance. As soon as anyone has to slow below the speed limit, for example in heavier traffic, it would be a hinderance.

Yes, let's hope no one would ever do this. If I were the police officer, I would cite the driver not only for hindering traffic but also for recklessly endangering the life of a child. I think my former students who are now judges would convict on both counts.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 08:40 PM   #11415
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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
If a single vehicle has to slow down (below the speed limit) for you, you're hindering.
I think this argument is invalid.
According to it you cannot drive tractors on DK's with 90 kph speed limit.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #11416
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I think this argument is invalid.
According to it you cannot drive tractors on DK's with 90 kph speed limit.
As a practical matter, the police generally won't issue a citation because there usually are not good alternatives (short of putting the tractor on a truck). However, if the police were to issue a citation, I think a judge would have to convict.

Not every violation of the law is prosecuted. Unless it's changed recently, it's still a law that every taxi in London must carry hay (to feed the horses pulling the taxi). Obviously, the police in London do not issue tickets to taxi drivers for not having hay.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #11417
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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
In light traffic, where no one has to slow below the speed limit as vehicles are passing, there would be no hinderance. As soon as anyone has to slow below the speed limit, for example in heavier traffic, it would be a hinderance.

Yes, let's hope no one would ever do this. If I were the police officer, I would cite the driver not only for hindering traffic but also for recklessly endangering the life of a child. I think my former students who are now judges would convict on both counts.
It would seem simple legislative solution to just eliminate 40 km/h with dziecko law, then all would be fine...

I have to admit, I can't ever remember seeing a small child on a motorcycle ever, aside from pictures of poor countries where the whole family is somehow mounted on a "Hongda" or similar small motorcycle...
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Old January 12th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #11418
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I have to admit, I can't ever remember seeing a small child on a motorcycle ever, aside from pictures of poor countries where the whole family is somehow mounted on a "Hongda" or similar small motorcycle...
I teach in India once or twice a year, so I'm used to seeing families of five on small motorcycles. On urban motorways, the shoulder is used for traffic going the wrong way, which is often more backed up than the traffic going the right way, but people are saving half a cent in petrol by not crossing over to the correct side of the motorway. It's also not unusual to see cows on urban motorways. There is also a complete disregard for lanes. Also, no one ever checks their mirrors or use turn indicators; instead they honk to let everyone know they are about to do something. It's quite mad. Well, the one good thing is that they do stop for red lights. Compared to all that, what I see on Polish roads seems almost civilized.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 11:09 PM   #11419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Nothing in the law says you have the right to carry a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway.
Nothing says I can't do it, so I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
The absence of an explicit prohibition against carrying a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway does not exempt anyone from the prohibition against hindering traffic.
That's just your wishful thinking.

Different types of vehicles have different speed limits on the same road (40/80/100/140). Just deal with it.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 11:16 PM   #11420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
I teach in India once or twice a year, so I'm used to seeing families of five on small motorcycles. On urban motorways, the shoulder is used for traffic going the wrong way, which is often more backed up than the traffic going the right way, but people are saving half a cent in petrol by not crossing over to the correct side of the motorway. It's also not unusual to see cows on urban motorways. There is also a complete disregard for lanes. Also, no one ever checks their mirrors or use turn indicators; instead they honk to let everyone know they are about to do something. It's quite mad. Well, the one good thing is that they do stop for red lights. Compared to all that, what I see on Polish roads seems almost civilized.
India...
very true
I used to live there in 90-ties
actually instead of right-turn indicators, an oridinary truck/bus driver used to put a palm out of a window. some of them were just putting out only fingers. still do not get it somebody could spot it :-)
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