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Old January 13th, 2014, 03:54 AM   #11421
geogregor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
In light traffic, where no one has to slow below the speed limit as vehicles are passing, there would be no hinderance. As soon as anyone has to slow below the speed limit, for example in heavier traffic, it would be a hinderance.

Yes, let's hope no one would ever do this. If I were the police officer, I would cite the driver not only for hindering traffic but also for recklessly endangering the life of a child. I think my former students who are now judges would convict on both counts.
I don't think you are right. First and foremost you should drive with a safe speed. Safe for the vehicle you driving and for the conditions you are driving in (rain, fog etc.).
So, if it is a tractor, and you drive 30 kph on a 90 kph national road, there is absolutely no way you are going to get citation. Same if you drive, let say, historic car which is registered and allowed on public road, even if you can only drive it at 50 kph.

Same apply if the surface is wet and you slow down to let say 65 kph. There is no way you are going to get citation for slowing anyone down, even if others are still able (or stupid, depending how wet it is) to drive 90kph.

Nowhere in law stands that speed limit is a target speed.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:57 AM   #11422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I don't think you are right. First and foremost you should drive with a safe speed. Safe for the vehicle you driving and for the conditions you are driving in (rain, fog etc.).
So, if it is a tractor, and you drive 30 kph on a 90 kph national road, there is absolutely no way you are going to get citation. Same if you drive, let say, historic car which is registered and allowed on public road, even if you can only drive it at 50 kph.

Same apply if the surface is wet and you slow down to let say 65 kph. There is no way you are going to get citation for slowing anyone down, even if others are still able (or stupid, depending how wet it is) to drive 90kph.
Those are two very different cases. In my opinion, driving 30 km/h on a 90 km/h road (under dry and clear conditions) is inherently unsafe if there is enough traffic that other vehicles are forced to suddenly brake. In rain or snow, everyone needs to drive more slowly than in clear and dry conditions.

Again, there is no law which says that tractors have a right to drive on a DK road, nor is there a law prohibiting them from doing so. Therefore the operative laws which determine whether or not a tractor may use a DK road are the law to maintain a safe speed and the law not to hinder. The legal applicability of both would depend on traffic and other conditions at the time. If a police officer writes a tractor driver a ticket for unsafe speed of 30 km/h on a DK road and for hindering traffic, a judge will convict. Current policy seems to be not to write such tickets, but that could change on a whim.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 10:26 AM   #11423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Again, there is no law which says that tractors have a right to drive on a DK road, nor is there a law prohibiting them from doing so.
If there is no law or signage prohibiting them from doing so, they have every right to be there, like any other vehicle.

Same goes for local bus doing 70 kph on DK or 80 kph on motorway.

Quote:
If a police officer writes a tractor driver a ticket for unsafe speed of 30 km/h on a DK road and for hindering traffic, a judge will convict. Current policy seems to be not to write such tickets, but that could change on a whim.
If a police officer will try to write such a citation, it will be thrown out in court, if one will be inclined to fight it.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 11:00 AM   #11424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ka__zet View Post
If there is no law or signage prohibiting them from doing so, they have every right to be there, like any other vehicle.
The question is not whether or not they have a right to be there. The question is whether or not they have a right to drive at a speed which makes the road unsafe for other vehicles and whether or not they have the right to hinder traffic. The law is clear on these questions. They don't have a right to drive at an unsafe speed (whether very fast or very slow) and they don't have a right to hinder traffic. That they get away with it in practice due to non-enforcement policies doesn't make it legal.

Edited to add: We're off-topic and for that I apologize. I will not continue to respond on this matter. It doesn't look like we're converging anyway.

Last edited by mcarling; January 13th, 2014 at 11:08 AM.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 11:48 AM   #11425
maxam
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Back to the summer '13 Few aerial pics from A4 near Góra Św. Anny. Map

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Parę fotek A4 z przelotu nad Górą Św. Anny.

Widok na wschód.





MOPy






Widok na zachód
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Old January 13th, 2014, 11:07 PM   #11426
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Hey guys any news about works on Mszana bridge? Will be finally opened in May?
And in polish thread I've red (but not understood at all) that there are some good news about A1 section Pyrzowice-Piotrkow. It's true or I need to improve my polish??
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Old January 13th, 2014, 11:25 PM   #11427
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Originally Posted by m_rocco View Post
Hey guys any news about works on Mszana bridge? Will be finally opened in May?
According to the company that repairs the bridge the date changed to 30th June...

Quote:
And in polish thread I've red (but not understood at all) that there are some good news about A1 section Pyrzowice-Piotrkow. It's true or I need to improve my polish??
A tender for construction of section Pyrzowice - Częstochowa (bypass) is supposed to be announced in the next 2 months. We'll see... it's not the first time we hear such news...
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Old January 13th, 2014, 11:49 PM   #11428
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Thank a lot. Nothing to do, need to wait another year to pass on that bridge
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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #11429
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del

Last edited by Chris80678; January 14th, 2014 at 04:17 PM.
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Old January 14th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #11430
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Quote:
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According to the company that repairs the bridge the date changed to 30th June...

oh dear the ongoing saga of the Mszana bridge - what a disaster and an embarrassment
On another note is the S17/S12 between the Lublin Mełgiewska and
Lublin Witosa interchanges supposed to be completed and opened to traffic on Monday 20th Jan 2014?
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Old January 14th, 2014, 05:15 PM   #11431
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Quote:
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On another note is the S17/S12 between the Lublin Mełgiewska and
Lublin Witosa interchanges supposed to be completed and opened to traffic on Monday 20th Jan 2014?
No. Winter is supposed to finally come tomorrow.
This is how this section looks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JinMao View Post
Zaktualizowana mapka Wielu rzeczy nie jestem pewien, więc proszę o komentarze i poprawki do mapki.


BREAKING NEWS
Polimex got kicked from the construction of A1 and A4.
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Old January 14th, 2014, 05:18 PM   #11432
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BREAKING NEWS
Polimex got kicked from the construction of A1 and A4.
Finally!!!

Way to late if you ask me.
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Old January 18th, 2014, 06:23 PM   #11433
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S2 in Warsaw by M_J_J

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Old January 18th, 2014, 06:39 PM   #11434
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Who will built the A1 and the A4 then?
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Old January 18th, 2014, 06:45 PM   #11435
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We are waiting for new tenders.
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Old January 18th, 2014, 07:01 PM   #11436
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Which sections are involved of this tenders?
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Old January 18th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #11437
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Those that Polimex-Mostostal was building. Have mercy, this board is not google...
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Old January 18th, 2014, 08:23 PM   #11438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Way to late if you ask me.
The problem with these contracts is that if GDDKiA would boot a contractor from a project too quickly, they would likely run into trouble at court. Right now there is sufficient evidence that these contractors are clearly unable to fulfull the contract, and that a new tender is necessary. But if they cancel a contract very quickly, the contractor could win an appeal.
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Old January 18th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #11439
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Couldn't they give a 1st and a 2nd place for each tender? If the winner of the tender is not fulfilling the contract and gets kicked out from the construction site, the 2nd placed bidder gets the chance to complete the construction in accordance with its bid. Could save time.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 06:31 AM   #11440
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Of course not, the cost is now different so there has to be a new tender, they can't come up with a new price like that.
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