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Old March 3rd, 2014, 05:12 PM   #11601
Strzala
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S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass:

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotyrek View Post
Dzisiejsze świeżynki.
Zdjęcia robione w kilometrażu malejącym, z zadania 4.1 i 4.2, począwszy od WD-21

1.


2.


3. Ogrodzenie rośnie


4. Urosło niemal na całej długości zadania 4.2


5.


Cdn ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotyrek View Post

49.


50.


Cdn ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotyrek View Post
56.


57.


58.


59. Połączenie zadań 3 i 4


60. a to chyba już nie moje terytorium


Cdn ...
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 05:26 PM   #11602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macieii View Post
It's not about making me happier, it's about the connotations that these specific places and their names in German have in Polish minds, at least some of them....
To be honest, I don't see why it would be a negative connotation, at least for Breslau, which was some time ago the 6th largest German city; nearly all of the civilians that died during the Siege, and after WWII, during the expel of the local population, where Germans (in the 1920's, Polish population represented less than 0,5%). Combatants where mostly Germans and the Red Army, not Polish. If you read the history of the City (and the area), it literally became Polish overnight, after Allies decided so during the Potsdam Conference, and Poles have settled massively in the city, mostly during the 1950's.
Saying that, I believe that Wrocław is a very nice and modern Polish city .

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You can be arrogant, or you can at least try to be nice
Well, I think that making things simpler to understand for a non-Pole has nothing to do with arrogance. Maybe during the era of the iron curtain it wasn't so important, but today's in the heart of Europe, it may be problematic .
Also, I defy anyone who's not speaking Polish to spell correctly "Szczecin", you see.

To stay "on topic", I propose to show some historical pictures of the construction of what is todays known as the A4.


Reichsautobahn (RAB) 9 Berlin-Breslau during construction, mid-1930's.
I passed many time on this motorway, and thought the design overpass were something extravagant created after the recent restoration, but in fact, it was there since the beginning; I haven't noticed any like this on other 1930's stretch. Does Anybody knows where those overpass design comes from, and why it was used on this particular RAB?


Another "design" overpass.


Brand new RAB near Breslau in 1936.


Map of May 1939, showing current and u/c stretches of RAB 9 near Breslau.


During construction, mid 1930's.
Note that small trains where used to bring materials.


Cobblestone Autobahn


New RAB near Breslau, 1936.


1930's RAB "dancing"


RAB Liegnitz-Breslau, 1938.
Note that there is still no hard shoulder today, after nearly 80 years!


Postcard of the village known today's as Kostomłoty with RAB on background, 1941.


RAB near today's Legnica, 1938


Last but not least, and definitely less funny, move of two light divisions on RAB in order to invade Poland, day before 1st of September 1939.
Note they were driving convertible Beetles.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 07:49 PM   #11603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Have any of the new road numbers (D9x) been spotted in the field yet?
Even before they became official.

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Originally Posted by klugaa View Post
wybaczcie jakość, ciemno było
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 07:54 PM   #11604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post

Reichsautobahn (RAB) 9 Berlin-Breslau during construction, mid-1930's.
I passed many time on this motorway, and thought the design overpass were something extravagant created after the recent restoration, but in fact, it was there since the beginning; I haven't noticed any like this on other 1930's stretch. Does Anybody knows where those overpass design comes from, and why it was used on this particular RAB?

Another "design" overpass.
Are those bridges still existing?
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 08:04 PM   #11605
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Yes. http://goo.gl/maps/X3oPY http://goo.gl/maps/LLnPQ

Last edited by Kemo; March 3rd, 2014 at 08:12 PM.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #11606
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I enjoyed driving that part of A4. It is like a time machine, especially the overpass with the Russian graffiti of WWII still there, and overpass looks like new, road surface excellent, and the lack of toll is refreshing. The 110 limit is annoying, but nobody bothered me with my 190 (same as the TVP Wroclaw van anyway), so no real issue... I even tanked at a Orlen placed in the middle of an interchange, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an original RAB tankstelle changed into today's stacja paliw (is it? It's in Wroclaw close to the tolled secton, direcja Dresdno) I know that kind of thing is not a preferred design today, but it was so convenient...
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Old March 4th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #11607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
the overpass with the Russian graffiti of WWII still there
Mmmh, are you talking about that one ?


A4 overpass near Wrocław with Russian inscription Водрузим над Берлином знамя победы (Hoisted the banner of victory over Berlin) from the time the Soviet army marching on Berlin in 1945.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I even tanked at a Orlen placed in the middle of an interchange, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an original RAB tankstelle changed into today's stacja paliw (is it? It's in Wroclaw close to the tolled secton, direcja Dresdno) I know that kind of thing is not a preferred design today, but it was so convenient...
Yes, it was original! as you can see here :


"Tankstelle" on the middle of RAB 9 exit of today's Legnica, 1937.


Typical "Tankstelle" in the middle of a RAB exit/entrance, 1938.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 01:40 AM   #11608
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Exactly that one, I had known it before (of the wikipedia), then, I am driving and, hey, there it is. The "warning, onramp 20 m" sign is just stupid though. (20 metres?!)

It's amusing for me at least to consider armies travelling by autobahn instead of running through mud. "OK Alexei we are just going to go by A4 and then we exit and take A18 straight to Berlin!" (meanwhile half army stuck in Zgorzelec swearing at the Apple Maps) Now with our proper infrastructure, and vehicularization of the armed forces, we (any modern country) are probably quite screwed if a war breaks out...

Here was the one I was at:
https://maps.google.pl/?ll=51.049893...5,,1,4.08&z=17

Thanks for the period pictures...

It seems so crazy to me to have overpasses of 1930's. Here we have many overpasses of late 1960's, and they are falling on the ground. Maybe weather, but, probably in that part of PL, you get more swing of freeze/thaw +5/-5 over the winter than Canada...

Last edited by Kanadzie; March 4th, 2014 at 01:49 AM.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #11609
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The "RAB" portion of A4 is also quite dangerous by night because of the game crossing, and I wouldn't advise anyone to exceed 110 km/h during this phase.
Already in the 1930's you had signs to announce this hazard:


1930's Game danger sign on RAB with button reflectors.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 02:10 AM   #11610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
Now with our proper infrastructure we (any modern country) are probably quite screwed if a war breaks out...
Funny you mentioned that because The USA and UK ( not NATO or France ...just those two.....) are 2 of the 3 Guarantors of the Ukraines Full and Inviolable Territorial Integrity under the Budapest Memorandum of 1994. I won't mention who the the third guarantor is as they are evidently outnumbered 2 to 1 anyway.

And the only way they can get guaranteeing is by sending large convoys along the A4 in Poland...obviously they will ask Poland first and Poland will not let a friend down. After all the UK inadvertently started a whole World war when they upheld an earlier guarantee they gave. ...in 1939.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 07:30 PM   #11611
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Some good news. Today the government approved extension of Schedule 5 to the Road Construction Program 2011-2015. This is official decision approved by the Council of Ministers (including Ministry of Finance) and includes projects for which tenders will be announced until 2015.

The list of new projects includes some 575 kms and is as follows:

A1 Pyrzowice - northern end of Częstochowa bypass (construction 2014-2017),

S3 Legnica - Bolków (construction 2015-2018),

S5 Wrocław - Bydgoszcz, parts Białe Błota - Mielno and Wronczyn - Radomicko (construction 2014-2017),

S5 Nowe Marzy (A1) - Bydgoszcz (construction 2016-2018),

S7 Warszawa - Gdańsk, parts southern bypass of Gdańsk - Elbląg bypass, and Napierki - Płońsk (construction 2014-2017),

S8 Radziejowice - Białystok, parts Wyszków - Zambrów (construction 2014-2017),

S19 Lublin - Rzeszów, part Lublin bypass - Sokołów Małopolski North (construction 2014 -2017),

S61 Augustów bypass - Lithuanian border (construction 2015-2020).

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Old March 4th, 2014, 07:58 PM   #11612
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As in #11497
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Old March 4th, 2014, 08:54 PM   #11613
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Speaking about former Reichsautobahnen in Poland, can someone post here pictures of former RAB Gross Strehlitz (Strzelce Opolskie) - Gleiwitz (Gliwice) - Beuthen (Bytom)? This RAB had two lanes (1x2) from beginning to Hindenburg (Zabrze), from Hindenburg to Beuthen it had four undivided lanes (2x2), similar as first AB Koeln-Bonn? According to the satellite image, this part is today National Road 88. Thanks in advance.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 09:09 PM   #11614
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Video by DSzumaher

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Originally Posted by DSzumaher View Post
Stan drogi: lipiec 2013

Here is the last bit of original concrete road: http://goo.gl/maps/pmjiZ
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Old March 4th, 2014, 09:13 PM   #11615
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Thanks. Maybe someone can post original photographs?
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Old March 5th, 2014, 12:09 AM   #11616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
Some good news. Today the government approved extension of Schedule 5 to the Road Construction Program 2011-2015. This is official decision approved by the Council of Ministers (including Ministry of Finance) and includes projects for which tenders will be announced until 2015.

The list of new projects includes some 575 kms and is as follows:

A1 Pyrzowice - northern end of Częstochowa bypass (construction 2014-2017),

S3 Legnica - Bolków (construction 2015-2018),

S5 Wrocław - Bydgoszcz, parts Białe Błota - Mielno and Wronczyn - Radomicko (construction 2014-2017),

S5 Nowe Marzy (A1) - Bydgoszcz (construction 2016-2018),

S7 Warszawa - Gdańsk, parts southern bypass of Gdańsk - Elbląg bypass, and Napierki - Płońsk (construction 2014-2017),

S8 Radziejowice - Białystok, parts Wyszków - Zambrów (construction 2014-2017),

S19 Lublin - Rzeszów, part Lublin bypass - Sokołów Małopolski North (construction 2014 -2017),

S61 Augustów bypass - Lithuanian border (construction 2015-2020).

Thank you for sharing the news! I had been hoping that they would approve extending the S12 to include a bypass of Chelm and the S17 to include a bypass of Zamosc. However, since the environmental impact plans have not been approved yet, I didn't expect a tender for either yet. It seems to be a good time to improve ties with Ukraine.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 12:19 AM   #11617
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End of A4 motorway under construction at Poland/Ukraine boarder in Korczowa:

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foto: GDDKiA
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Old March 5th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #11618
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Highways / expressways:

U/C 300 km
In Operation 2805 km
Under Tender 781 km
Soon u/Tender 575 km
Total 4461 km
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Old March 5th, 2014, 01:39 AM   #11619
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By 2020 Poland will have broken the back of building the core Motorway/Expressway network and will most probably complete the outliers by 2027 when the next EU funding window ends.

Orbital routes around Warsaw and The Industrial belt west of Krakow will probably be needed in the next plan as well as building the remainder of the A2 to Belarus etc.

By comparison Spain and Portugal joined the EU in 1986 and Greece in 1982 and Spain will finally finish their core network in 2015 while Portugal is pretty much finished bar a suspended mountain tunnel section which means it will have taken them over 30 years.

I really cannot see Poland taking as long to do the job as Spain and Portugal did. I cannot see Poland building motorways to nowhere a la Spain and Portugal either but the Iberian programs had a stunning effect on road safety, you are more likely to die in an urban road accident in Portugal than in a rural road accident nowadays.

Last edited by sponge_bob; March 5th, 2014 at 01:56 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 03:42 AM   #11620
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Reichsautobahn Gleiwitz-Beuthen

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Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
Speaking about former Reichsautobahnen in Poland, can someone post here pictures of former RAB Gross Strehlitz (Strzelce Opolskie) - Gleiwitz (Gliwice) - Beuthen (Bytom)? This RAB had two lanes (1x2) from beginning to Hindenburg (Zabrze), from Hindenburg to Beuthen it had four undivided lanes (2x2), similar as first AB Koeln-Bonn? According to the satellite image, this part is today National Road 88. Thanks in advance.
Here are some pictures :


RAB 29 Gleiwitz-Beuthen, 1937.
Today, this section is part of DK 88, al. Nowaka-Jeziorańskiego near Zabrze.


RAB near Zabrze, early 1940's.


Same location during construction, late 1930's


Similar section in 2005.



RAB 29 near Gleiwitz, early 1940's.


Viaduct over the railway in Gliwice, built in 1941-1944 by prisoners of concentration camps, today part of DK 88, 2009.
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