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Old March 5th, 2014, 04:06 AM   #11621
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Old March 5th, 2014, 12:52 PM   #11622
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Highway A4 Jarosław - Bodrer with Ukraina



Expressway S8 Wieruszów - Sieradz

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Old March 5th, 2014, 01:42 PM   #11623
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Highway A4 Jarosław - Bodrer with Ukraina - is it already open? I haven't seen a single car heading towards Ukraine? In general doesn't looks very busy but a grate video man! Thx
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Old March 5th, 2014, 02:38 PM   #11624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Here are some pictures :
...
Thanks.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 02:50 PM   #11625
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Old March 5th, 2014, 04:30 PM   #11626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeting View Post
Thank you for the video ;-).

Former RAB Gliwice-Bytom, which is today part of DK88, is known as "Old Motorway" (Stara Autostrada), but more sadly famous, as "Death Road" (Droga Śmierci), because of the many tragic accidents that occurred during the last 20 years. It has many stretches registered "officially" as "black point" of deadly accidents in Poland.


"Black point" of DK 88, ul. Tarnogórskiej in Gliwice.

Yet, I would be curious to know the reasons why Germans choose to construct this stretch as "sub-standard" RAB (with only one large undivided carriageway and two lanes), while you can see on the scheme below that their own "norms" were much higher during this period?


Evolution of Autobahn "standards" from HaFraBa in 1927 to RAB in 1939.
Note that the 1939 width configuration is still in use today!



Another example to illustrate this is the RAB Heidelberg-Karlsruhe, exit Karlsruhe-Durlach in 1939.


As you can see below, DK 88 is part of the "obwodnica" (bypass) system in Gliwice; but also, more largely, as a main transit artery of the Silesian Metropolis.
Improvements should be made today, at least, by putting a central barrier to prevent deadly frontal collisions.
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Last edited by John Maynard; March 5th, 2014 at 04:36 PM.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #11627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufonut View Post
Highways / expressways:

U/C 300 km
In Operation 2805 km
Under Tender 781 km
Soon u/Tender 575 km
Total 4461 km
do you have data about other countries in EU?

this should put Poland fairly high on the list
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Old March 5th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #11628
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We did not have to wait too long for the first tenders.

Today GDDKiA is announcing 4 tenders for A1 from Pyrzowice to DK1 north of Częstochowa (including bypass of Częstochowa). To be built in concrete.

The construction period is 30 to 33 months from the execution of the contract (should be this year), excluding winter periods of December 15th - March 15th.

If everything goes fine (no Mszana bridge this time ), the new road will be open in late 2017 or early 2018.

EDIT: MAP

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/14331/...-autostrady-A1

Last edited by bad_boy; March 5th, 2014 at 11:19 PM.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #11629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
This is where junction with A1 is today:
http://goo.gl/maps/Zidhj


Quote:
Viaduct over the railway in Gliwice, built in 1941-1944 by prisoners of concentration camps, today part of DK 88, 2009.
This viaduct is now under reconstruction, photos here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=923

Quote:
Former RAB Gliwice-Bytom, which is today part of DK88, is known as "Old Motorway" (Stara Autostrada)
Also known as "betonówka" (concrete road - though it is not concrete anymore) or "hitlerówka" (meaning is obvious).

Quote:
Improvements should be made today, at least, by putting a central barrier to prevent deadly frontal collisions.
As you can see on my photo above, central barrier has been put in the area of junction with A1.


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Originally Posted by panthiocodin View Post
Highway A4 Jarosław - Bodrer with Ukraina - is it already open? I haven't seen a single car heading towards Ukraine?
Yes, it was opened in December.

Last edited by Kemo; March 5th, 2014 at 05:58 PM.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 05:45 PM   #11630
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Today vegetation is much denser.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 07:19 PM   #11631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
This is where junction with A1 is today:
http://goo.gl/maps/Zidhj
And, you can see the original concrete surfacing on the shoulder, as asphalt was just poured on: https://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.306994...1,,0,49.9&z=17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
As you can see on my photo above, central barrier has been put in the area of junction with A1.
It is unfortunate, that this is still not done to the entire "dangerous" section, safety would benefit.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 07:34 PM   #11632
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
It is unfortunate, that this is still not done to the entire "dangerous" section, safety would benefit.
And probably won't be done, because the road would be too narrow.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:41 PM   #11633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Here are some pictures :


RAB 29 Gleiwitz-Beuthen, 1937.
Today, this section is part of DK 88, al. Nowaka-Jeziorańskiego near Zabrze.
...
However, if one looks at the span of this overpass, builders had left enough space on the left to wide this RAB in the future.
My question is: is it possible to wide this old motorway to put a Ney Jersey barrier in the middle of it on the whole stretch, leaving old concrete pavement below recent asphalt pavement intact (making an additional concrete widening tape) or it is necessary to torn down old concrete pavement and remake it from the scratch?
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:48 PM   #11634
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From this http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=923, an interesting photo:


It is interesting that parts of this viaduct are welded, not riveted. For 1940s it seems an advantage procedure in constructing a motorway viaduct.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 09:33 PM   #11635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
Some good news. Today the government approved extension of Schedule 5 to the Road Construction Program 2011-2015. This is official decision approved by the Council of Ministers (including Ministry of Finance) and includes projects for which tenders will be announced until 2015.

The list of new projects includes some 575 kms and is as follows:

A1 Pyrzowice - northern end of Częstochowa bypass (construction 2014-2017),
So this is not planned as a toll concession anymore? I believe it used to be planned as private concession like A2 west.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #11636
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[
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
By comparison Spain and Portugal joined the EU in 1986 and Greece in 1982 and Spain will finally finish their core network in 2015 while Portugal is pretty much finished bar a suspended mountain tunnel section which means it will have taken them over 30 years.

I really cannot see Poland taking as long to do the job as Spain and Portugal did. I cannot see Poland building motorways to nowhere a la Spain and Portugal either but the Iberian programs had a stunning effect on road safety, you are more likely to die in an urban road accident in Portugal than in a rural road accident nowadays.
I don't want to be pessimistic, but (according to Wikipedia) Spain has the biggest motorway/expressway network in Europe (even bigger than Germany) and the third in the world (after China and USA), totalizing 16,204 km (as of 2012). Taking into consideration the fall of dictatorial regimes, Spain is "free" since 1975, while Poland is now for nearly 25 years; so Spain would have taken 40 years to finish their (much larger) m./e. network. Also, you must take into account that fewer motorways/expressways were built in Poland during the first 20 years since collapse of communism. The last 5 years have seen a dramatic change in this tempo, but is unfortunately, now slowing down. So with 2'805 km today in operation, they would need to construct another 14'000 km to get into the level of Spain, and I can barely see how they could manage to catch this up in 15 years.
Also, Spain has lots of separatist movements, which Poland, fortunately doesn't have (Silesians are piece of cake in comparison to Spanish terror), and therefore more political stability .
And yes, more motorways/expressway means less killed in road accidents , a factor that apparently many politicians doesn't take enough into consideration.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 10:09 PM   #11637
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Probably it is just because for Polish politicians motorway and expressway construction is not a priority as it was in Spain. There you have the different rhythm in the network extension. However, it was as well a bad factor as it provoked an oversized network in Spain. I don't think it has something to do with nationalism and separatism in some regions in Spain (most of the oversized and underused network is in Castille).

Furthermore, I am not sure if such a large network as in Spain would be necessary in Poland. Population distribution and urban areas have a different layout.

According to the current plans, which would be the total length of the planned network?
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Old March 5th, 2014, 10:30 PM   #11638
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~7500 km
So we have so far completed 1/3 of the plan
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Old March 5th, 2014, 10:43 PM   #11639
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So this is not planned as a toll concession anymore? I believe it used to be planned as private concession like A2 west.
That is correct, the initial plan was to grant concession for the entire unbuilt part from Pyrzowice to Tuszyn.

Now the southernmost part tendered today will be financed from national funds (as opposed to private investor). It should be toll free as well, but I would not expect it will stay toll free forever.

What will be the funding scheme for the last part from Częstochowa to Tuszyn is anyones guess today. This is the most lucrative road in Poland (will be built as 2x3 from the start). That is probably also its curse, because the government attempts to find sophisticated funding formula for it for a decade without success...
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Old March 6th, 2014, 01:03 AM   #11640
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Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
Furthermore, I am not sure if such a large network as in Spain would be necessary in Poland. Population distribution and urban areas have a different layout.

Span is twice the size of Poland (nearly) and is not as important a transit country. Around 7500km would be about right for Poland.

Poland will pass out the UK by 2016 or so. The UK has what is easily the most miserable high speed network of all the major EU countries ( in terms of network size, economy and population) although it is generally free to use excepting some key bridges which are tolled and where network construction started in the 1950's.
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