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Old May 3rd, 2014, 05:05 PM   #11941
ChrisZwolle
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You have to consider that it's not like driving a regular two-lane road in Switzerland or Germany, but rather a busy two-lane road loaded with trucks and towns for most of the trip.

It's a lot less stressful to drive A1+A2, but it will cost more (fuel + tolls).
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 05:29 PM   #11942
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I've driven through Poland before the current motorway building boom. It was much slower, but not particularly stressful.
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 06:44 PM   #11943
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I've driven through Poland before the current motorway building boom. It was much slower, but not particularly stressful.
Have you driven on DK7 between Warsaw and Gdańsk? There have been some measures taken to make it safer plus there's more and more sections upgraded to 2x2 expressway, but it used to be a really traumatic experience (at least for the less experienced drivers) to drive this route. There was an informal third lane in the middle, people were overtaking like that pretty much all the time, sometimes four cars had to squeeze because two idiots coming in different directions met in the middle:


It's much, much better now, but still many drivers prefer to take the longer, but in their mind much safer route through Toruń (either A2+A1 or from Płońsk through DK10).
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Old May 4th, 2014, 11:19 AM   #11944
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Nothing, I am afraid, given the way you phrased the question.

I think what you meant was to ask how much time you would save once viaduct MA-532 is open. The answer is not that much, actually. Currently it takes approximately 20 min to go from Świerklany to Mszana (residential areas, 4 sets of traffic lights, other road hazards) and this will go down to 4-5 min once this stretch of the A1 motorway is fully open to traffic.
Is there any news about the opening of the bridge?

The current diversionary route really is exasperating.
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Old May 4th, 2014, 11:22 AM   #11945
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Apparently the Mszana Bridge will open on 30 June.
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Old May 4th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #11946
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Apparently the Mszana Bridge will open on 30 June.
We're hoping for opening before the end of May actually, GDDKiA is talking about June 30 just to be on the safe side in case something goes wrong
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Old May 5th, 2014, 02:05 AM   #11947
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We're hoping for opening before the end of May actually, GDDKiA is talking about June 30 just to be on the safe side in case something goes wrong
End of May would be great. I should be driving there around that time .
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Old May 5th, 2014, 02:10 AM   #11948
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When it comes to transportation choices, people generally only consider out-of-pocket costs (tolls, fuel, parking) and not less tangible stuff such as depreciation or maintenance.
And mostly it is quite correct to do so. If you have a car already, it is perfectly fine to look only at the direct costs comparing e.g. gas price to the train ticket.

Only if the choice is: compare the transportation costs for the next x years if you have a car or if you don't have it. Then it makes sense to count everything. Thus in fact, only when people are buying a car. Once they have it, it is quite simple.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 10:26 AM   #11949
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And mostly it is quite correct to do so. If you have a car already, it is perfectly fine to look only at the direct costs comparing e.g. gas price to the train ticket.

Only if the choice is: compare the transportation costs for the next x years if you have a car or if you don't have it. Then it makes sense to count everything. Thus in fact, only when people are buying a car. Once they have it, it is quite simple.
You're mistaken. We're not talking about the sunk costs or the depreciation due to age. We're talking about the additional maintenance costs and depreciation which result from every kilometer driven.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 04:08 PM   #11950
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You're mistaken. We're not talking about the sunk costs or the depreciation due to age. We're talking about the additional maintenance costs and depreciation which result from every kilometer driven.
Those are negligible and mostly impossible to quantify (additional maintenance). If you want to have the car ready to be used and use it regularly, you need to pay the normal maintenance costs anyway. The difference in price, per km driven, of autos with high stand of kms to those with low stand of kms is negligible compared to the fuel price.

I would dare to say that some 90 % of the variable costs consist of the fuel cost and the only moment when it makes sense to look at anything else than the variable costs is when you are buying the car.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 05:31 PM   #11951
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Those are negligible and mostly impossible to quantify (additional maintenance). If you want to have the car ready to be used and use it regularly, you need to pay the normal maintenance costs anyway. The difference in price, per km driven, of autos with high stand of kms to those with low stand of kms is negligible compared to the fuel price.
Maintenance and depreciation costs are not negligible. They may be difficult for some people to quantify. Maintenance needs to be done on a per km basis more than on a per time period basis and repairs are almost 100% on a per km basis. In a typical year, I spend just over half as much on repairs and maintenance as I do on fuel.

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I would dare to say that some 90 % of the variable costs consist of the fuel cost ....
Unless you think an 11.1% difference is negligible, you've contradicted yourself.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 07:08 PM   #11952
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Maintenance and depreciation costs are not negligible. They may be difficult for some people to quantify. Maintenance needs to be done on a per km basis more than on a per time period basis and repairs are almost 100% on a per km basis. In a typical year, I spend just over half as much on repairs and maintenance as I do on fuel.
Then you drive very little or you have a wreck but expensive car. But what are you talking about actually. Imagine that you drive 30 000 km per year and pay some 3 500 Euro for gas a year. You say that additional costs associated only with driving costs you another 1 700 euro?

Repairs... you can't really calculated that in the costs beforehand. And the insurance you need to have anyway, whether you drive a lot or not so much.
Technical control... you need to do it anyways.
Change of tires... you need to change winter tires every few years anyway. If you drive really a lot, you need to change tires more often, but then their price is negligible on the per km bases.
Oil, lamps, filters etc... you need to do that anyway, whether you drive too much or too little
Any kind of vehicle taxes... you need to pay them anyway.

Then you have the exchanges triggered by the km stand. Price of those is quite small on the per km bases. Further on, often those things need to be exchanged also after certain years.

I don't think that 10 % is significant enough that it would make anyone switch from a car to a train when thinking about the next trip. Besides, there are other things that you would need to take into account, like time loss etc... I think that 10 % evens those things quite nicely out to just forget about them.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #11953
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Then you drive very little or you have a wreck but expensive car. But what are you talking about actually. Imagine that you drive 30 000 km per year and pay some 3 500 Euro for gas a year. You say that additional costs associated only with driving costs you another 1 700 euro?

Repairs... you can't really calculated that in the costs beforehand. And the insurance you need to have anyway, whether you drive a lot or not so much.
Technical control... you need to do it anyways.
Change of tires... you need to change winter tires every few years anyway. If you drive really a lot, you need to change tires more often, but then their price is negligible on the per km bases.
Oil, lamps, filters etc... you need to do that anyway, whether you drive too much or too little
Any kind of vehicle taxes... you need to pay them anyway.

Then you have the exchanges triggered by the km stand. Price of those is quite small on the per km bases. Further on, often those things need to be exchanged also after certain years.

I don't think that 10 % is significant enough that it would make anyone switch from a car to a train when thinking about the next trip. Besides, there are other things that you would need to take into account, like time loss etc... I think that 10 % evens those things quite nicely out to just forget about them.
I drive an Audi TT. It's not a wreck. It's well maintained. Yes, I spend over 2000 euro, on average, per year on repairs and maintenance. Last year was over 5000 euro, but that was exceptional because one part cost 3500 euro.

We were not writing about driving versus taking the train. We were writing about choosing between alternative routes. The specific context was driving Gdansk-Warsaw and choosing between A1/A2 or DK7/S7.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 07:32 PM   #11954
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I think maintenance cost is only a factor if you drive Warszawa - Gdańsk with high frequency. It won't really matter if you do that trip only three or four times per year.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #11955
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Is there any news about the opening of the bridge? The current diversionary route really is exasperating.
Sorry for the late reply.

Judging by answers given above, you probably know already that the official opening date is 30 June. However, the company contracted to finish off the engineering works is doing a sterling job completing the task ahead of schedule. All indications are that an end-of-May opening date is a real possibility. It all depends on how the guys manage to contain and resolve any last-minute hiccups, which in a project of this magnitude surface practically every day.

Here is a recent picture by wawrzula, who himself is doing an exceptional job updating us several times a week on latest progress. As you may appreciate, there is something like 2-3 weeks of real engineering work to do and after that all the official paperwork needs to be completed, signed and approved. Most of the key engineering repairs are actually hidden from view and were done under the main deck (cables, stays, anchors etc), so the picture below may not be a true representation of all that there is left to do.



Copyright wawrzula (taken on 29.04.2014)




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Old May 5th, 2014, 08:26 PM   #11956
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Beautiful bridge. It's been a long wait. Hopefully open soon!
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Old May 6th, 2014, 12:39 AM   #11957
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Yesterday in Grajewo.

Lithuanian "driver" with 6 people in his van broke probably every road rule in the city one can break. Luckily he was quickly pulled over and arrested and no one got hurt. Several pedestrians were almost run over and cars had to swerve to avoid oncoming van.

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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:03 AM   #11958
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Wrong topic, homie->http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1675253
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Old May 6th, 2014, 03:07 AM   #11959
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Quote:
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I drive an Audi TT. It's not a wreck. It's well maintained. Yes, I spend over 2000 euro, on average, per year on repairs and maintenance. Last year was over 5000 euro, but that was exceptional because one part cost 3500 euro.

We were not writing about driving versus taking the train. We were writing about choosing between alternative routes. The specific context was driving Gdansk-Warsaw and choosing between A1/A2 or DK7/S7.
I can't imagine spending 5000 EUR on maintenance. In past year on my Mercedes CLK I spent, approx 50 EUR on maintenance (2 new dampers in the rear), and a few litres of oil, approx 12 EUR (did not change, not yet time :p) for distance of approx 20 000 km. You need to buy some spanners! Oh and I replaced a brake line, fittings and line which cost me about 3 EUR (LOL but true) and a bottle of brake fluid, 5 EUR
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Old May 6th, 2014, 03:08 AM   #11960
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S8 by Yaper

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Zaczynamy nad węzłem Opacz.










Pilot robi zwrot, a ja robię szersze ujęcie z POW w tle.


CDN...
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Pruszkowska


Centralna


Sokołowska


Mszczonowska


oraz Maximus

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