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Old August 19th, 2014, 02:57 PM   #12441
geogregor
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All this discussion is a little bit pointless.

First Kanadzie is childishly boasting how fast he can drive and then others try to pretend that 140 km/h is somehow magical safety limit.

Motorway limit was once 130 then raised to 140 without any changes to road geometry or surface. Speed limit is always arbitrary.

BTW, how many of you never ever drove faster than the speed limit?
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Old August 19th, 2014, 03:05 PM   #12442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling
It's incredibly arrogant to assume that everyone else has one's own (or lower) level of driving skill.
At my previous job, I knew a high speed-addict who used to say that. Now you can pay him a visit at the Powązki Cemetery in Warsaw. Little was left both of his car and himself after he crashed into a tree at, yes, some 190 km/h.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #12443
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Well, usually there are no trees along a motorway...
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Old August 19th, 2014, 05:43 PM   #12444
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Yes I've driven faster than the speed limit in England (hold my hands up for that) but it not to the speeds of 190km/h. I still think 140km/h speed limit in Poland is too much because technically you can 10% over that at 154km/h which is almost 100mph.

It's not arrogant, you're just asking for trouble, you're not a safe driver driving at that speed. Yes I think he was boasting. Well done mate. I would like to think how fast he drives in the winter snow..
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Old August 19th, 2014, 07:47 PM   #12445
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It's incredibly arrogant to assume that everyone else has one's own (or lower) level of driving skill.
Having said that, having spent over 4 years driving in Poland, there's no way that "driving skill" and "Poland" goes together.

Doing 200km/h in Germany - no big deal, everyone expects people to be blasting down the left lane on the Autobahn. In Poland? Different story - people pull out blindly all the time, and 200km/h is just too fast to allow for the sheer amount of stupidity on Polish roads.

I nearly had an accident yesterday doing 120km/h because some idiot in a 90's wreck decided to try and overtake a truck by swinging from the sliproad onto the left hand lane of the S11 outside Poznan. If I'd been doing 200km/h, I wouldn't have had a chance - he was hidden behind sound barriers until the last minute.

I don't doubt your driving skill, but I do doubt the skill of many idiots on Polish roads who have no reason to improve their skill because they'll never get caught anyway. And I consider myself to be an average driver at best.

For what it's worth, I admit to breaking the speed limits on an almost systematic basis, especially at night. But 190km/h is just too much - Poles do not have the level of skill that German drivers have. For a start, it's part of the German mentality to move the hell out of the left/middle lanes if you're not overtaking. In Poland? hahahaha.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 07:53 PM   #12446
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ok, lets go back to the thread now
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Old August 19th, 2014, 08:25 PM   #12447
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Poles do not have the level of skill that German drivers have. For a start, it's part of the German mentality to move the hell out of the left/middle lanes if you're not overtaking. In Poland? hahahaha.
C'mon, don't talk crap!
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Old August 19th, 2014, 09:45 PM   #12448
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I nearly had an accident yesterday doing 120km/h because some idiot in a 90's wreck decided to try and overtake a truck by swinging from the sliproad onto the left hand lane of the S11 outside Poznan. If I'd been doing 200km/h, I wouldn't have had a chance - he was hidden behind sound barriers until the last minute.
Then it is the person who nearly caused the accident with you yesterday who is dangerous, not the skilled driver in a good car going 200 km/h.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 10:36 PM   #12449
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Then it is the person who nearly caused the accident with you yesterday who is dangerous, not the skilled driver in a good car going 200 km/h.
They're both equally responsible - the one doing 200km/h shouldn't be doing it when he/she knows that Polish drivers are unbelievably stupid and reckless, after all. A skilled driver would know and adapt to the local driving conditions - and that dictates not doing 200km/h in a country where using mirrors is optional.

Does anyone know when the new S5 near Rawicz will finally open? I passed by yesterday, and it looks finished from what I can see.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 10:49 PM   #12450
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Then it is the person who nearly caused the accident with you yesterday who is dangerous, not the skilled driver in a good car going 200 km/h.
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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
When the A4 is dry, traffic is light, and visibility is good, a moderately skilled driver in a modern, well-maintained car can safely drive well in excess of 200 km/h, so please stop the nonsense about "irresponsible drivers".
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The discussion was about safety, not the law. What is safe and what is legal are two very different things -- usually with very little connection.
That's a useless answer. It's the sort of drivel that could be used to try to justify setting motorway speed limits at 30 km/h so that drunk people would have non-fatal accidents.
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It's incredibly arrogant to assume that everyone else has one's own (or lower) level of driving skill.
I would like to avoid such a driver like you on my way...
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Old August 19th, 2014, 10:58 PM   #12451
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Does anyone know when the new S5 near Rawicz will finally open? I passed by yesterday, and it looks finished from what I can see.
In September.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:26 PM   #12452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I nearly had an accident yesterday doing 120km/h because some idiot in a 90's wreck decided to try and overtake a truck by swinging from the sliproad onto the left hand lane of the S11 outside Poznan. If I'd been doing 200km/h, I wouldn't have had a chance - he was hidden behind sound barriers until the last minute.
Apart from all the discussions about the speed limits; the sound barriers around the slip lanes might be an issue on its own rights.

In some thread, probably about S8, there were few shots of tall sound barriers protecting service area from the noise of the slip lanes. Thy really look like they might be limiting visibility a bit.
It might be an issue for drivers joining the traffic as well as those on the mainline which will see cars joining quite late.
Junction Rowien on the A1 also hast tall barriers by the slip lanes (there is a service area at this junction too).

When I'm joining motorway or expressway I like to have as much visibility as possible and find barriers in such places quite annoying.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #12453
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good point, I wondered about that as well. Both traffic entering the motorway and traffic on the motorway benefit from seeing each other. Especially if there's a column of trucks you want to adapt your speed to a possible gap to merge into. That works better if you can see them.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:42 PM   #12454
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The problem is that normally it wouldn't be an issue - you'd use the slip lane to get up to speed, then pull out. But because driving standards are so poor in Poland, people just swing out - so if there's a truck in lane 1, then they just go straight to lane 2 without looking.

I'm not really sure about what could be done to prevent this, unless they put a physical barrier between lanes 1 and 2 to prevent people from doing this, which wouldn't be particularly desirable.

Maybe the simplest solution would be to use transparent sound barriers at such places?
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Old August 20th, 2014, 02:36 AM   #12455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
The problem is that normally it wouldn't be an issue - you'd use the slip lane to get up to speed, then pull out. But because driving standards are so poor in Poland, people just swing out - so if there's a truck in lane 1, then they just go straight to lane 2 without looking.

I'm not really sure about what could be done to prevent this, unless they put a physical barrier between lanes 1 and 2 to prevent people from doing this, which wouldn't be particularly desirable.

Maybe the simplest solution would be to use transparent sound barriers at such places?
You definitely exaggerate about the poor standards of driving in Poland. It is way better than it was, let say, 10-15 years ago.
Sure, we have our share of idiots, maybe even higher than in some other countries, but it is not something dramatic. Shit happens everywhere. Even in beloved by some road geeks Germany.

I know that theoretically slip lane should be enough to safely join the traffic, but more visibility the better. If you see the traffic on the mainline in advance you can make your judgement better, look for gaps in traffic, see if there is any mess happening etc.
Similarly, if you are in the mainline you will see traffic joining earlier, not suddenly jumping out from behind some stupid wall of noise barriers.

I know we have to protect from noise but in such places visibility should have a priority.
When I'm driving I prefer to see far ahead to prepare for any possibility. Those excessive barriers at the junctions limit that long distance visibility on road situation.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 08:32 AM   #12456
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Sorry if this has been discussed already, but then again, I know that Poland is undergoing massive road construction projects so the answer might have changed anyway.

So, what is the fastest/smoothest/best route (whichever way you define one as such) from Lithuania to Warsaw? With road quality, traffic volumes vs. capacity taken into account?

Signposts say 8 - 61; Google Maps says 8 - 61 - 677 - 8; my own common sense says simply 8, that being a single numbered road and even an E road. And 8 - 61 - 63 - 8 seems also possible.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 08:56 AM   #12457
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what is the fastest/smoothest/best route (whichever way you define one as such) from Lithuania to Warsaw? With road quality, traffic volumes vs. capacity taken into account?
It depends on where in LT. The answer is different for example between Kaunas and Vilnius. From Kaunas, take the DK8 to Augustow. From Vilnius, take the DK16.

Between Augustow and Warsaw, DK61 then DW677 then DK8/S8 is the shortest and fastest, but requires high concentration levels and may be more dangerous than staying on the more relaxed DK8/S8 via Bialystok. The worst parts of the DW677 were widened and repaved last year.

Last edited by mcarling; August 20th, 2014 at 09:13 AM.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 09:30 AM   #12458
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It depends on where in LT. The answer is different for example between Kaunas and Vilnius. From Kaunas, take the DK8 to Augustow. From Vilnius, take the DK16.

Between Augustow and Warsaw, DK61 then DW677 then DK8/S8 is the shortest and fastest, but requires high concentration levels and may be more dangerous than staying on the more relaxed DK8/S8 via Bialystok. The worst parts of the DW677 were widened and repaved last year.
Ah yes, I meant Kaunas.

Thanks for the answer. Are there still single carriage sections between Warsaw and Bialystok? Is Google maps up to date?
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Old August 20th, 2014, 11:44 AM   #12459
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Are there still single carriage sections between Warsaw and Bialystok? Is Google maps up to date?
More than half the route is still single carriageway DK8, but they are going fast, the whole thing would be 2x2 S8 no later than 2020 it seems. They recently put out a number of tenders for S8 construction.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 11:56 AM   #12460
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Yes I've driven faster than the speed limit in England (hold my hands up for that) but it not to the speeds of 190km/h. I still think 140km/h speed limit in Poland is too much because technically you can 10% over that at 154km/h which is almost 100mph.

It's not arrogant, you're just asking for trouble, you're not a safe driver driving at that speed. Yes I think he was boasting. Well done mate. I would like to think how fast he drives in the winter snow..
And 100MPH is suddenly some magical dangerous threshold?

Roads in Poland have a comparable or better geometry than in Bavaria, where 190..230km/h is common. Not "common" as "I've seen it", but common as your commute speed.
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