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Old August 30th, 2014, 01:45 PM   #12561
verreme
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I'm of the opinion too that the frequent stopping for toll booths is a complete joke. Barrier tolls on a long distance route make absolutely no sense.

It's pie in the sky stuff, but I'd like to see the construction of a third lane on the A2 bypass of Poznan, but built in such a way that the third lane would be only for traffic heading towards Warsaw. They would be able to drive straight through the toll booths without stopping, but the lane would be physically segregated from the others.
There's no need for such a complex system. In Spain there are toll-free bypasses integrated in a closed-toll system. Local traffic is free of charge; you just enter your ticket like in any other toll gate, but you pay nothing.
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Old August 30th, 2014, 02:10 PM   #12562
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There's no need for such a complex system. In Spain there are toll-free bypasses integrated in a closed-toll system. Local traffic is free of charge; you just enter your ticket like in any other toll gate, but you pay nothing.
It wouldn't work with the volume of traffic on the A2 - the A2 is really more like a local road between Poznan-Komorniki and Poznan-Krzesiny junctions. I don't think there's even room for a toll plaza on the A2 junctions at that point.
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Old August 30th, 2014, 02:51 PM   #12563
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There's no need for such a complex system. In Spain there are toll-free bypasses integrated in a closed-toll system. Local traffic is free of charge; you just enter your ticket like in any other toll gate, but you pay nothing.
The same case is on A4 near Gliwice - if you travel between those 4 junctions, you don't pay.

But having to pay is not a problem, having to stop at toll barriers is...
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Old August 30th, 2014, 09:48 PM   #12564
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But having to pay is not a problem, having to stop at toll barriers is...
Exactly. I don't mind paying tolls. Being forced to stop or slow down to do it is insane.
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Old August 30th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #12565
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We have to wait some years (2017), to eliminate toll barriers.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 12:45 AM   #12566
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We have to wait some years (2017), to eliminate toll barriers.
Hopefully. We don't know how the matter with concessionaires will be sorted out yet.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 03:49 AM   #12567
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Visualization of new section of S7 between Gdansk and Elblag:
Exit Żuławy East:


Exit Cedry Małe:


Exit Elbląg West:


Exit Dworek:
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Old August 31st, 2014, 02:45 PM   #12568
John Maynard
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What is the date currently proposed to open S7 from Gdansk to Warsaw, and from Warsaw to Krakow?
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Old August 31st, 2014, 03:48 PM   #12569
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Hopefully. We don't know how the matter with concessionaires will be sorted out yet.
From what I understand - electronic tolling would make it a formality, as the money could just be passed straight to the concessionaires, who would obviously be quite happy to eliminate the toll booths and the hassle that goes with it. But this would require everyone to get the viaAUTO, which is a bit ridiculous.

Vignettes could be introduced, but I can't imagine that the concessionaires would be happy to give up the income from tolling so easily. The only solution I can see in that respect is to buy out the concessionaires - but I can't imagine Autostrada Wielkopolska giving up a cash cow so easily.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 05:24 PM   #12570
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From what I understand - electronic tolling would make it a formality, as the money could just be passed straight to the concessionaires, who would obviously be quite happy to eliminate the toll booths and the hassle that goes with it.
Yes, but concessionaires will have to agree to this, the government can not impose them anything.

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But this would require everyone to get the viaAUTO, which is a bit ridiculous.
Not necessarily. There are some options, e.g. route declaration with payment in advance for those not possessing viaAUTO. Details should be announced in the coming weeks.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 06:12 PM   #12571
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What is the date currently proposed to open S7 from Gdansk to Warsaw, and from Warsaw to Krakow?
Both after 2020.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 06:52 PM   #12572
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http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/51.7135/19.4595
Trasa Górna (DK1) in Łódź. It will be opened tonight. Today cyclists etc were allowed to test it

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(In case the photos don't appear click the button)
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Old August 31st, 2014, 07:55 PM   #12573
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Both after 2020.
Still a long time waiting...
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Old August 31st, 2014, 10:59 PM   #12574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
From what I understand - electronic tolling would make it a formality, as the money could just be passed straight to the concessionaires, who would obviously be quite happy to eliminate the toll booths and the hassle that goes with it. But this would require everyone to get the viaAUTO, which is a bit ridiculous.

Vignettes could be introduced, but I can't imagine that the concessionaires would be happy to give up the income from tolling so easily. The only solution I can see in that respect is to buy out the concessionaires - but I can't imagine Autostrada Wielkopolska giving up a cash cow so easily.
I traveled to Houston, Texas in 2009 and this is the kind of toll I saw:
Two or three lanes for thos having an electronic badge, and 3 or 4 classic toll plazas aside. This is a very good system, that considerably reduces any traffic jam. It is much better than the French télépéage system (where you slow down to 30 km/h), and I believe Poles should take Houston as a model for toll-collecting ...
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old September 1st, 2014, 12:07 AM   #12575
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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
I traveled to Houston, Texas in 2009 and this is the kind of toll I saw:
Two or three lanes for thos having an electronic badge, and 3 or 4 classic toll plazas aside. This is a very good system, that considerably reduces any traffic jam. It is much better than the French télépéage system (where you slow down to 30 km/h), and I believe Poles should take Houston as a model for toll-collecting ...
But this could apply only to existing toll sections, because on new sections there will be no toll booths built. Consequently, government is seeking for system with no manual tolling at all.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 12:12 AM   #12576
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Poland can simply inspire itself from its own largest city, Chicago

Electronic pass holder typically just drives either on open road under gantry (no action from driver required) or when toll is on exit, through special lanes (again no special action needed). Driver without pass can exit on a slip road and pay toll with cash at collection station.

The only annoying thing is small exits have only coin-accepting basket and no person or barrier. If you have only paper money or cards, you cannot pay, so you must drive on. System will take picture of license plate and you can get ticket if you pass 2 or more times without paying. But, if you remember where you were, you can pay toll online from home (extra cost). It is needlessly complicated...
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Old September 1st, 2014, 02:43 AM   #12577
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Old September 1st, 2014, 02:46 AM   #12578
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The only annoying thing is small exits have only coin-accepting basket and no person or barrier. If you have only paper money or cards, you cannot pay, so you must drive on. System will take picture of license plate and you can get ticket if you pass 2 or more times without paying. But, if you remember where you were, you can pay toll online from home (extra cost). It is needlessly complicated...
I almost got caught out at one of those close to the O'hare Airport on my first ever visit to Chicago. Luckily I had some quarters left from my previous trip to Kentucky.

However I do like the free flow mainline with option of the manual toll lanes for the casual users located on the side of the mainline.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 03:28 AM   #12579
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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
I traveled to Houston, Texas in 2009 and this is the kind of toll I saw:
Two or three lanes for thos having an electronic badge, and 3 or 4 classic toll plazas aside. This is a very good system, that considerably reduces any traffic jam. It is much better than the French télépéage system (where you slow down to 30 km/h), and I believe Poles should take Houston as a model for toll-collecting ...
Actually this becomes slowly a history. Now toll plazas in US are adding express e-zpass lanes like these one below. There is no needs to slow down at all.

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Old September 1st, 2014, 05:06 AM   #12580
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I almost got caught out at one of those close to the O'hare Airport on my first ever visit to Chicago. Luckily I had some quarters left from my previous trip to Kentucky.
I had no coins so I just hit the gas. Next time I go Chicago I take my other car
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