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Old November 7th, 2014, 09:10 AM   #13121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Bielsko-Biala will become the only city in Poland connected via motorways to Slovakia and Czech rep but not to the rest of Poland...
this is not true if you want to be precise
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Old November 7th, 2014, 09:30 AM   #13122
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I'm very happy to see more of the S69 open. I have often driven between Bratislava and Warsaw and this section has always been a bottleneck (in my experience) along what should be the fastest route (but isn't because longer routes are presently better developed).

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I thought expressway should serve national traffic in first place, not international one...
With the new motorways and expressways primarily funded by the EU, I cannot share this sentiment. The EU has a major interest in integration and it is an interest that I share as a citizen of the European Union. There should not be any impediment (other than distance) to a citizen of the EU living in one country and commuting to work/school/uni every day in a neighboring country.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 10:32 AM   #13123
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So-called Augustow bypass (S61+DK8) was opened last night. Official info from GDDKiA:
https://translate.google.com/transla...odnica-otwarta
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Old November 7th, 2014, 11:06 AM   #13124
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Originally Posted by mjas View Post
So-called Augustow bypass (S61+DK8) was opened last night. Official info from GDDKiA:
https://translate.google.com/transla...odnica-otwarta
It will still take some of the transit traffic out of Augustow - but I agree not all of it as drivers still have to go thorugh the town to go eastwards to the Lithuanian border at Ogrodniki

When will construction of the entire bypass of Suwalki begin? This is the next major bypass which is needed on S61 really

Last edited by Chris80678; November 7th, 2014 at 11:42 AM.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 12:18 PM   #13125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris80678 View Post
It will still take some of the transit traffic out of Augustow - but I agree not all of it as drivers still have to go thorugh the town to go eastwards to the Lithuanian border at Ogrodniki

When will construction of the entire bypass of Suwalki begin? This is the next major bypass which is needed on S61 really
It is planned to construct all the way from Suwalki to Lithuanian border by 2020. I heard that construction of Northern Suwalki bypass will start soon after the opening of this stretch. Maybe next year.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 12:21 PM   #13126
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Next year, I hope. Although maybe I am too optimistic. Info from local media from August this year:

https://translate.google.pl/translat...-text=&act=url
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #13127
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If DK8 now goes from Augustow to S61 interchange near Raczki. What number will get the old Suwalki-Augustow road (if it will have any)?
DK8 will end at Racki, when S61 will be completed to LT?

Thinking about S61: I know that DK road doesn't go parrarel with the same number S road. What will happen to an old DK61 road when S61 will be constructed? Is there a plan how the new routes will go?
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Last edited by PovilD; November 7th, 2014 at 01:39 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:47 PM   #13128
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Well done on the progress in north eastern Poland, fantastic work and pace.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #13129
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Augustów bypass. Sorry for not so good quality and rainy weather.

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Old November 7th, 2014, 03:25 PM   #13130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PovilD View Post
If DK8 now goes from Augustow to S61 interchange near Raczki. What number will get the old Suwalki-Augustow road (if it will have any)?
DK8 will end at Racki, when S61 will be completed to LT?

Thinking about S61: I know that DK road doesn't go parrarel with the same number S road. What will happen to an old DK61 road when S61 will be constructed? Is there a plan how the new routes will go?
I think the focus is on getting the entire S61 and S8 routes in eastern Poland built first i.e. S8 from Warsaw to Bialystok and S61 from Ostrow Maz up to Polish/Lithuanian border
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Old November 7th, 2014, 05:00 PM   #13131
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Originally Posted by PovilD View Post
If DK8 now goes from Augustow to S61 interchange near Raczki. What number will get the old Suwalki-Augustow road (if it will have any)?
It will become a gminna road - no number shown on maps and signage. Unless the voivodeship decides to make it a "DW" road.

Quote:
DK8 will end at Racki, when S61 will be completed to LT?
Yes.

Quote:
Thinking about S61: I know that DK road doesn't go parrarel with the same number S road. What will happen to an old DK61 road when S61 will be constructed? Is there a plan how the new routes will go?
The parallel part will become a gminna road. The other sections will probably be renumbered to DK64 and DK58.

Last edited by Kemo; November 7th, 2014 at 08:05 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 07:20 PM   #13132
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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
...

With the new motorways and expressways primarily funded by the EU, I cannot share this sentiment. The EU has a major interest in integration and it is an interest that I share as a citizen of the European Union. There should not be any impediment (other than distance) to a citizen of the EU living in one country and commuting to work/school/uni every day in a neighboring country.
to integrate Poland with other nations, firstly Poland needs to be self-integrated (national roads or expressways). once we achieve this level then we can start thinking of EU integration. no the other way around
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Old November 7th, 2014, 07:59 PM   #13133
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What is the new number of former DK8 between Augustów and Suwałki? Is it downgraded to a DW-road, or even an unnumbered municipal or powiat road?
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Old November 7th, 2014, 08:15 PM   #13134
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Quote:
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to integrate Poland with other nations, firstly Poland needs to be self-integrated (national roads or expressways). once we achieve this level then we can start thinking of EU integration. no the other way around
Poland has been integrating into the EU since 1991 when Poland signed the EU Association Agreement and started modifying Polish law to conform with EU requirements. This process will not stop just because some people want to pursue an isolationist road-building strategy (which anyway could not reasonably be financed).
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Old November 7th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #13135
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Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
This process will not stop just because some people want to pursue an isolationist road-building strategy (which anyway could not reasonably be financed).
What isolationist strategy?

Germany - completed connections via A2, A4. S6 is on the primary list. A18 also exists, only that southern carriageway is in bad condition.

Lithuania - S61 on the primary list.

Czech and Slovakia - this is a different topic, because there are mountains and building motorways in this terrain is very expensive. However, A1 and S1 to Czech are completed, there is progress on S69 to Slovakia and most of S3 to Czech is also on the primary list.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 08:37 PM   #13136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What is the new number of former DK8 between Augustów and Suwałki? Is it downgraded to a DW-road, or even an unnumbered municipal or powiat road?
This question has already been answered (see below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
It will become a gminna road - no number shown on maps and signage. Unless the voivodeship decides to make it a "DW" road. [...]
However, I found no clear evidence of what will happen to the old Suwałki-Augustów road.
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old November 7th, 2014, 09:17 PM   #13137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
What isolationist strategy?
I was referring to the isolationist strategy advocated below (which is why I quoted it) not to any actual strategy of GDDKiA or the Polish government. I think the current plans are a good balance between internal and external road-building. I do not support the idea (below) that all external road-building should stop until internal requirements have been fully met.

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Originally Posted by and802 View Post
I thought expressway should serve national traffic in first place, not international one...

personally I like Slovakians, but not as much to go there every second day...
lets clean up road bottle necks on our own backyard first.
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Originally Posted by and802 View Post
to integrate Poland with other nations, firstly Poland needs to be self-integrated (national roads or expressways). once we achieve this level then we can start thinking of EU integration. no the other way around
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Old November 7th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #13138
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I was browsing through the construction programme 2014-2020

bip.mir.gov.pl/Prawo/Transport/Pozostale_projekty/Documents/PBDK_2014_2020_program.pdf

Page 46, project 13, S7 Lubień - Rabka. 3.2 billion PLN for 17 km. That's € 46 million per kilometer. What are the plans for this stretch? Do they plan a long tunnel? It is significantly more expensive than other S projects (except for S2 in Warszawa). Most S projects hover in the € 8 - 12 million/km range.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 10:06 PM   #13139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
I was referring to the isolationist strategy advocated below (which is why I quoted it) not to any actual strategy of GDDKiA or the Polish government. I think the current plans are a good balance between internal and external road-building. I do not support the idea (below) that all external road-building should stop until internal requirements have been fully met.
wow, sorry for this. english is not my first language.
anyway, you have not read carefully my posts either.
the isolationist strategy is just an example of that.


please read carefully and on the other hand i promise to improve my english. ok with you ?
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Old November 7th, 2014, 10:20 PM   #13140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Planned motorway network in ~2020 included in the proposal of new road construction schedule 2014-2020.
Black - existing & under construction
Blue - planned (primary list)
Orange - reserve projects (secondary list)


no northern bypass for 3city agglomeration (instead they will spend money for useless 'metropolitan' ring road.
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