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Old November 8th, 2014, 10:37 PM   #13181
ChrisZwolle
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Most rural sprawl and ribbon development seems to be in southeastern Poland. But if you think that is bad, try Belgium.

The downsides of rural sprawl;
* difficult to build new infrastructure
* difficult to reconstruct existing roads
* you need much more road mileage per capita
* less efficient land use
* more expensive municipal services

I'm not really against suburban sprawl, as long as they build integrated neighborhoods with a regular density. 'sprawl' is often used pejoratively, but it caters to a demand of affordable and desireable housing. Polish cities, with their many apartment blocks, have a very low birth rate. The GUS forecasts that cities will lose population up to 2050, while the countryside would not lose much. A de-urbanization.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #13182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
omg Polish negativity is so tiring, it is starting to infect international threads.
I understand polish forum members since I'm also upset with insane urban sprawl. But at least polish people are able to build a straight road on the flat land. Something that we are not able to do. It is also true that this type of urban sprawl and high noise standards result in these horrible noise barriers everywhere.

Last edited by Karaya; November 9th, 2014 at 01:38 AM.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 04:55 AM   #13183
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Quote:
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omg Polish negativity is so tiring, it is starting to infect international threads. please give me a break and move to a country that is a perfect paradise on earth. I've travelled Poland, Europe and NA far and wide, and I really don't see such extensive sprawl or chaos in Poland. Yes it could be improved and yes they could curb advertising. Try driving outside the old city of Toronto where 3 million live in utter urban sprawl, where you have to drive miles to get to anything. sorry maybe it's just that I am getting too sensitive to exaggerated way Poles express themselves in any language, on the Polish thread and here, so generalized and negative in every way, it seems that they hate their country with an enormous passion, but no one else understands it.
I don't really mind suburban sprawl. It often provides cheap housing for the masses, be it Toronto, Texas or Wroclaw.

But I do mind ugly walls along the landscape in Poland. Even worse, we do build noise barriers bang along the city streets as well as in the middle of nowhere.

I find it particularly strange writing from the UK where shit single single glaze windows and crap insulation (well, often total lack of it) seems to be the norm and yet noise barriers are way, way, way less prevalent.
Then in Poland, where triple glaze windows are nowadays the norm and where we have quite well insulated houses, we also get those long, boring, crap noise walls.

Something, somewhere went really, really wrong along the way....

Last edited by geogregor; November 9th, 2014 at 03:45 PM.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 12:33 PM   #13184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
omg Polish negativity is so tiring, it is starting to infect international threads. please give me a break and move to a country that is a perfect paradise on earth. I've travelled Poland, Europe and NA far and wide, and I really don't see such extensive sprawl or chaos in Poland. Yes it could be improved and yes they could curb advertising. Try driving outside the old city of Toronto where 3 million live in utter urban sprawl, where you have to drive miles to get to anything. sorry maybe it's just that I am getting too sensitive to exaggerated way Poles express themselves in any language, on the Polish thread and here, so generalized and negative in every way, it seems that they hate their country with an enormous passion, but no one else understands it.
Well, it is not negativity. It is just the reality - please take a look at urban planning in any of the bigger or smaller cities in Poland and you'll see it. And it is not only about sprawl. It is about proper planning in the cities, very often in the stict city centers.

There is even a nice thread showing all stupidities in the planning in Poland: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1660101 Take a look and you'll find out what I am writing about. You may also google for 'Filip Springer' - he shows the bad urban planning just as it is happening.

Edit: Look at this: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=469 and please do not tell anymore it is proper urban planning.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #13185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salto_angel View Post
Seems you know little about Polish urban planning. It was the best or one of the best in Europe before WW2. Spend some time looking at Polish cities in Google maps and you'll find out it is going out of any standards.
And what kind of standard is good for you? To plan everything to the little details? For me is good planning, that on important (regional/state) roads won't every house have their own exit directly on that kind of roads, because that is very dangerous and also slows traffic. Other than that i don't care where and what they are bulilding on their land And i don't know why are you mentioning urban planning in Poland before WW2...
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Old November 9th, 2014, 03:36 PM   #13186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salto_angel View Post
Edit: Look at this: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=469 and please do not tell anymore it is proper urban planning.
This is bad. It's nothing like urban sprawl in Toronto suburbs or Netherlands. Countries like Netherlands and Spain have really good tradition of urban planning but we in eastern Europe lost it after the WW2. It's hard for us now to fix these mistakes.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 05:52 PM   #13187
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S17, Lublin Rudnik interchange



https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/phot...type=1&theater
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Old November 9th, 2014, 05:56 PM   #13188
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that little patch of trees in top left is amusing, it is like they planned to make 3rd loop of clover, so cleared but then decided, ah what the hell, make flyover ramp instead
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Old November 9th, 2014, 06:04 PM   #13189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POLAMCO View Post
Why you just don't go there and ask them are they happy to live without those freaking barriers? Yes, I want to puke too when I start to read your yelling. I propose move to this kind of place where you'll appreciate the sound of road freight from all over the Europe. 24/7, instead of heavy traffic ban days.

P.S.Poland=/=Holland=/=GB
Have you ever heard about that thing which is called 'urban sprawl costs'?

This picture shows exactly what that means. If you want more information, you can google it up, and I strongly advise you to do that, because now you are just talking like a typical populist.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #13190
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New "super roads" in Podlaskie voivodeship.

Mini bypass called "Trasa Generalska" with new fragment in Białystok. (new road from 0:28 to 1:33).

Augustów bypass with new expressway S61 "Via Baltica".
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Old November 9th, 2014, 11:26 PM   #13191
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I see that Trasa Generalska is getting modernised every year.Also when we can expect motorway from Bialystok to Belarus border ?
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Old November 10th, 2014, 01:11 AM   #13192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
when we can expect motorway from Bialystok to Belarus border ?
It's not on either the primary list or the reserve list for 2014-2020, so not before the 2020s.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #13193
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The road accident statistics for October 2014 compared with October 2013. Nearly 100 people less were killed this year in this month.

In order:

Number of accidents
People killed
Accidents caused by drunk drivers
Drivers caught while driving drunk

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Old November 10th, 2014, 03:19 AM   #13194
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A and S 2x2 roads in September 2013: 2376 kilometres

A and S 2x2 roads in September 2014: 2650 kilometres

93 people lives were saved in one month...
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Old November 10th, 2014, 12:54 PM   #13195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
that little patch of trees in top left is amusing
I like this one (on S11 Poznań bypass)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
I see that Trasa Generalska is getting modernised every year.Also when we can expect motorway from Bialystok to Belarus border ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
It's not on either the primary list or the reserve list for 2014-2020, so not before the 2020s.
Actually such motorway is not on ANY list, there is the so-called "large bypass of Knyszyn primeval forest" instead:

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Old November 10th, 2014, 05:34 PM   #13196
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I think that motorway is very needed there because
there is a big number of trucks.If you guys don't believe me you can check a video i have posted a couple pages behind.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 06:11 PM   #13197
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There are dozens of roads where there is a big number of trucks and we’ve got priorities, such as completing the existing network and/therefore connecting all voivodeships with the capital.
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Old November 10th, 2014, 06:37 PM   #13198
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I know that but this project is not going to be so expensive
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Old November 11th, 2014, 12:46 AM   #13199
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He is right, don't forget about all the new transport traffic to BY to supply the Byelorussian apples, kielbasa and squid for export

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
I like this one (on S11 Poznań bypass)
I like it too. I remember seeing it under construction here, then I went and actually visited it

I was kind of lost so I used 2 loops and went back to Poznan

There is a similar forest-interchange I use daily going home from work here in Canada, with decent number of trees, but we don't have that kind of very dense spacing of trees here...
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Old November 12th, 2014, 12:23 PM   #13200
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There is a massive new update of imagery of Poland in Google Earth that was released on 8 November.

https://maps.google.com/gallery/deta...g.kz3qtKM-Oia4

Kurów interchange:


Kępno interchange:
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Last edited by ChrisZwolle; November 12th, 2014 at 12:30 PM.
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