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Old November 14th, 2014, 08:33 PM   #13221
Rombi
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So why not to put more noise barriers?
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Old November 14th, 2014, 10:38 PM   #13222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigic View Post
There's almost nobody living there!
Nobody lives in Warsaw?
This is the place: https://maps.google.pl/maps?ll=52.29...01929&t=h&z=16
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Old November 14th, 2014, 10:46 PM   #13223
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Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Nobody lives in Warsaw?
I don't think nobody lives in Warsaw. I've heard about it. Isn't it a small village behind Konotopa?
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Old November 15th, 2014, 12:03 AM   #13224
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Sorry, I thought that houses are not that close to this sound-walled bridge.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 12:42 PM   #13225
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Old November 15th, 2014, 05:49 PM   #13226
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Summary of last 30 days. This was probably the record-breaking month in terms of the number of newly opened roads. At least considering the non-motorway ones.

Opened motorways:
S12/S17 Lublin bypass (section 4): 13,8 km
S8 Walichnowy - Sieradz: 38,9 km
A4 Tarnów - Dębica: 35 km
S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass (section 3): 10,2 km
DTŚ sections G1 and Z4: 3 km
S69 Bielsko-Biała - Rybarzowice: 6,5 km
S61 Suwałki - Raczki: 12 km

Total 119,4 km

Other roads:
DW162 eastern bypass of Gościno: 2,6 km
Last section of Koszalin's inner ringroad: 1,8 km
DK55 Trasa Średnicowa in Grudziądz: 1,1 km
DK12 southern bypass of Sieradz: 6,4 km
DW975 eastern bypass of Wojnicz: 4,6 km
DW384 Sieniawka bypass: 1,6 km
DW384 Uciechów bypass: 2,9 km
DK77 western bypass of Leżajsk: 3,6 km
DK42/DK91 north-western bypass of Radomsko: 3,2 km
DW416 eastern bypass of Głubczyce: 3,7 km
DW985 eastern bypass of Mielec (section 1): 4,5 km
DK8 Raczki - Augustów: 21 km
DW933 northern bypass of Jastrzębie-Zdrój: 5,2 km
DK60 eastern bypass of Płock (section 1): 1,6 km
DW653 Krasnopol bypass: 4,7 km
DW764 Połaniec - Tuszów Narodowy: 14 km
DK44 northern bypass of Skawina: 2,1 km
DW867 Prusie - Siedliska: 3,7 km

Total 91,3 km

And it's just pure coincidence that we have regional elections tomorrow
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Old November 16th, 2014, 11:26 AM   #13227
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Highway A4 Kraków - Rzeszów (including newly opened stretch Tarnów - Dębica) in 10 minutes (x8)
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Old November 17th, 2014, 10:17 AM   #13228
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road fatalists

I have some thoughts how to decrease road fatalists and I think it would be worth to consider an idea to build roundabouts in villages on DK roads.
Polish drivers skills is a big problem. I travel very often on DK94/36 Wroclaw - Lubin
and it happens always that Polish drivers start to overtake very stupid way.
You can easily see when you can`t overtake because the spaces between lines start to shrink but Polish drivers don`t care and finally they finish overtaking when they are already in the village on crossroads or pedestrian crossings. I can see this always.
I`m often overtaken on crossroads even on right side. Another big problem is TIR drivers , they never go through the village below 70 km/h , for the period of last year I don`t remember even 1 single TIR driver going less then 70, I go 60 km/h but if you go really 50 km/h you can be sure TIR on your back blinking lights.
If there are roundabouts in every village every TIR and car would have to slow down,
the villages are short so 1 roundabout in every village would help a lot and this is not high cost.
I always slow down to 60 km/h when I see white board meaning village and I see people behind me in car looking often VERY SURPRISED , sometime even shaking hands
(maybe asking why this guy slowing down on motorway DK94 - yes TIR drivers treat DK roads as Polish style transcontinental expressways)
I think the problem is Polish mentality , it`s not like Sweden where King of Sweden travels in metro and doesn`t have problem with it , and normal people will choose tram or bus , in Poland 15 year old Passat is often not something you have to travel sometimes but there is lot of emotion around it , it`s hobby, it`s FASHIONABLE for some people driving it`s SPORT and STYLE OF LIFE.
It`s really strange when you see how often Polish people clean cars and even wax it , until last month I even didn`t know what is waxing the car but people do.........this says something about attitude
That`s why there are so many issues on roads and Poland is number 1 dangerous country in European Union

When I drive on DK road through some village I feel that I am a GUEST of the people who lives in this area,
I know their children are going to school and their mothers are going to doctor etc
I know I`m almost in their home but TIR drivers think they are on inter state road , same many other drivers
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Last edited by jtybinka; November 17th, 2014 at 11:52 AM.
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Old November 17th, 2014, 11:05 AM   #13229
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Pretty much spot on. The car is seen as a status symbol in Poland, and driving as aggressively and as fast as you can is somehow seen as a basic human right. I remember one idiot (in a big black SUV, of course) on the verge of having a breakdown because I wouldn't speed up in the city - the more he blasted the horn and flashed his lights, the slower I went. I think I was down to around 20km/h at one point, simply because his behaviour was ridiculous. He finally passed me by driving through a red light - and it shows how these people think. The "40-50 man alone in a big car" part of society is about as dangerous as it comes behind the wheel.
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Old November 17th, 2014, 12:15 PM   #13230
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In terms of road fatalities it's always mostly about mentality.
Usually bad roads are an excuse.
Surely polish mentality doesn't help to decrease this bad statistics like Eulanthe mentioned above...
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Old November 17th, 2014, 02:38 PM   #13231
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One roundabout at each end of the village would probably suffice.
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Old November 17th, 2014, 04:35 PM   #13232
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A contract was signed with Budimex for construction of second carriageway and a new junction on Międzyrzecz bypass (S3 motorway).

S3: Międzyrzecz-North - Międzyrzecz-South 21 6.4km (November 2014 to June 2017) – projectmap
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Old November 17th, 2014, 05:32 PM   #13233
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What was planned at the S3-DK32 interchange at Zielona Góra?

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Old November 17th, 2014, 07:23 PM   #13234
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It might be a new alignment of DW282.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 01:25 AM   #13235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtybinka View Post
I think the problem is Polish mentality , it`s not like Sweden where King of Sweden travels in metro and doesn`t have problem with it , and normal people will choose tram or bus , in Poland 15 year old Passat is often not something you have to travel sometimes but there is lot of emotion around it , it`s hobby, it`s FASHIONABLE for some people driving it`s SPORT and STYLE OF LIFE.
It`s really strange when you see how often Polish people clean cars and even wax it , until last month I even didn`t know what is waxing the car but people do.........this says something about attitude
That`s why there are so many issues on roads and Poland is number 1 dangerous country in European Union
I love Polish people Does King of Sweden ride metro? I only remember the Prime Minister rode the metro, until somebody shot him in back of head (early 1980's...)

I think the whole issue of TIR through towns and people passing on three is easily solved by improved road network. Why are TIR-ow passing in villages anyway, is there a big factory in the village, no, they are through-traffic, on some major route, this should not be inside villages but on a motorway or expressway (or at minimum bypass...)

Similarly people pass on imaginary 3rd lane because there are only 2 lanes on the road when there should be 4 for that volume of traffic...

Considering the consistent and rapid decline of road fatalities as roads are improved it seems this solution is working correctly and effectively!

Especially considering it is much more likely for average Pole to die because of the rope he tied on his neck than anything related to a wheel it seems not something to worry about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Pretty much spot on. The car is seen as a status symbol in Poland, and driving as aggressively and as fast as you can is somehow seen as a basic human right. I remember one idiot (in a big black SUV, of course) on the verge of having a breakdown because I wouldn't speed up in the city - the more he blasted the horn and flashed his lights, the slower I went. I think I was down to around 20km/h at one point, simply because his behaviour was ridiculous. He finally passed me by driving through a red light - and it shows how these people think. The "40-50 man alone in a big car" part of society is about as dangerous as it comes behind the wheel.
Hahaha, you complain but you admit you were provoking him too. If you drove normal 50 km/h sure he cannot complain, but if you slow to 20 clearly you were trying to get some reaction, which if we consider road safety, is relatively reckless... I do concur about the 40-60 ish range men to be most aggressive in my experience (and for stupid reasons!)
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Last edited by Kanadzie; November 18th, 2014 at 01:30 AM.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 01:32 AM   #13236
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actually Poland does not have a high suicide rate but traffic deaths are among highest in Europe, but not as high as you would think. Still, these rates are dropping rapidly with new roads.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 01:47 AM   #13237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I think the whole issue of TIR through towns and people passing on three is easily solved by improved road network.
For gigaeuros value of "easily".
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Old November 18th, 2014, 11:29 AM   #13238
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If you don't want trucks driving 70km/h in the villages you bulid bypasses or motorways/expressways. It's not something specific to polsih drivers. Driving hundreds of kilometers through vilages and towns will get you tired menthally.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 01:34 PM   #13239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
In Poland, as snowdog said about his friends, people just buy random plot of land and build random house. Then we end up with miles and miles of not really suburbs, nor villages, just random, mostly ugly, houses.
That is subjective, I think ''row housing'' and especially them mid density appartements we have a lot here in Holland ( up to 4 stories high) scream poverty and crampness.

Having an standalone house, with a garage, and a big fence around with with a big ''podworko'' for yourself to do whatever you want without government idiots meddling is a godsend.



Quote:
And then try to build decent roads (or public transport lines or even utility lines) through that mess...
Pubbic transport makes zero sense at all outside urban areas.

At best you end up with walls of sound barriers at worst with NIMBYs who want to preserve their silly idea of rural idyll, even if they live in messy, dirty and traffic clogged environment.
Quote:
There is case in Wroclaw where bypass was planned for years and then we got this silly housing built in recent years so the road is now stuck in planning as locals pretend they live in a village.
I personally just want the village space and freedom, the rest is irrelevant for me.
Quote:
further from people burning rubbish in their heating units.
This is exactly the reason I like Poland, no silly garbage collector fares, but simply burn the crap on your own field.

Quote:
I just wonder why then so many people migrate from all this lovely rural houses from all around Poland to this "horrible", "ugly" and "crap" neighbourhoods in Holland and the UK
Because THEY might like it ?

I disliked Garwolin when I was small, not because of the houses or ''mess'' or the heavy traffic going straight through the town, but because of the lack of fast internet, a mcdonalds, lack of transport ( to young to drive ) etc...

Now with a McD's, a Tesco, my car, a bit of expressway to get to Wasaw slightly quicker ( the rest is still planned, roundabout at Kolbiel is a **** traffic wise). I'd gladly live in a place like Garwolin or Mierzaczka or Reducin over Rotterdam ( I live in a suburb of R'dam atm).


When Poland gets it's infrastructure sorted further, I'll probably buy a property in a place like that myself to chill there once in a while outside of all the rules and regulations and crampness and density of Rotterdam.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 01:38 PM   #13240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Vimes View Post
If you don't want trucks driving 70km/h in the villages you bulid bypasses or motorways/expressways.
That`s just impossible ,
DK94/DK36 goes along A4 (25 kilometres north) so there will be never new road in new corridor
even in Holland with very dense population they don`t build motorways
pararel to another motorways.
According your logic how many kilometres of motorways you think Poland need
25 000 km or 30 000 km ? It`s not possible anywhere in US , Holland , Germany
There will be always many places with regular 2 lines roads

Building bypasses , there are so many villages that buildng bypasses
would mean building completely new corridor
So how many kilometres of new roads you are proposing ?
40 000 km ( as we have 18 000 km DK roads and 20 000 km DW roads)

???
When we have even 5000 km of modern roads in year 2020 the number
of accidents will go down to some level and then will stay on maybe 3000 deaths in a year (hope less)
plus 40 000 accidents
cause there will be still 50 000 km of normal 2 lines roads with high traffic
The only way is that Polish become more civilized , but I doubt it will happen soon

70 km by TIR in village is minimum some of them go faster

I did 180 000 km by car last 4 years but if it`s only possible I take a train
Many times I prefered 8 hour by train then 4 hours on Polish road

Even in CZ when you go to Brno you turn on the radio on Friday and you can hear
"be careful on motorways becasue Polish are going back from Austria for weekend"
"be carefull for Vienna "W" number plate becasue there can be Polish behind the wheel"

Last edited by jtybinka; November 18th, 2014 at 02:01 PM.
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