daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 25th, 2014, 02:52 AM   #13321
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,961
Likes (Received): 681

a lot of cars for early post soviet days. Anyone know what the car ownership rate was like back then? how fast did it increase once Poland converted to capitalism?
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 25th, 2014, 07:22 AM   #13322
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,375
Likes (Received): 748

Yeah but the cars are all Poloneza (OK I see a Ford and some random van... renault?)
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 08:12 AM   #13323
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

Gierkowka in 1995 or earlier that was probably the only strech of 4 lines road longer then about 100 km.
But have in mind that in 1960s and 1970s there was build in Poland tens of thousands of kilometres 2 line roads because many roads that were in Poland didn`t have pavement ,there was only sand. Roads in former Germany, Dolnoslaskie etc had granite stone pavement and that was as well rebuild.
Roads in Swietokrzyskie were terrible , for instance the road 79 didn`t exists at all , my family who lived in Polaniec , they had to go by horses to nearest narrow gauge railway station , then by narrow gauge train to Szczucin , then by train to Tarnow and that was almost until 1970
That was massive investment specially when you compare that after 1990 only some very short pieces of 2 lines roads were build.
In fact until about 2004 when EU many arrived the massive TIR transport and passanger cars , they were using infrastructure build before 1990.
It`s paradox but after 1990 they were not able to build anything even maintain what was build in 70s 80s and so on
It changed after Brussel funds arrived
In terms of road investment the time period 1990-2005 was much much worse then 1965-1980 (railways even worse what is difficult to imagine)

Last edited by jtybinka; November 25th, 2014 at 08:23 AM.
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 08:54 AM   #13324
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491


Still some gravel roads, yes? How many kilometers of gravel roads are being paved per year?
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 10:39 AM   #13325
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Still some gravel roads, yes? How many kilometers of gravel roads are being paved per year?
Not sure what you mean by gravel road but anyway I don`t know and as well I think
could be very difficult to find numbers as majority of roads it`s managed by local powiat or even gmina. GDDKiA has ONLY 18 000 km when you add DW roads it`s still small percent of the total

I noticed many local roads with almost no pavement now have new asphalt in Swietokrzyskie but in the same time you can be very surprised when you see heavy trucks transit on DW382 between Dzierzoniow and DK8 on the road paved with granit blocks , that wasn`t rebuild until last year. (well tracks still go through 10 km long village on new pavement)
Other places with granite block - not many for instance DW 383 but there are no tracks there , same DW 345


Actually I don`t see big problem with gravel roads (whatever it is) , I don`t see many
of them
What I see is huge number of local roads that were build in 60s 70s even 80s with asphalt and nothing was done since that time.
When you travel by A4 from Wroclaw to Legnica road is nice but when you go left or right off from A4 - that`s DISASTER
As I said in 1965-1980 they built huge number of roads but since 1990 until now they are not even able to repair them
They are happy they build 500 km expressway but they don`t say anything about 100 000 km of poor pavement and no by passes


Actually
DK roads - actually not bad
DW roads - rather bad
local roads (and that`s majority in kilometres of total )- bad , sometime extremely bad , they have same asphalt
since 1970
roads that don`t have pavement - that usually when they build
houses on not prepared area what happen often

What strange we used to think that roads in West (Dolny Slask) are better then
East , becasue there was some base build by German
Actually I think roads in Dolny Slask are much worse then Swietokrzyskie
what I think the reason is in Swietokrzyskie they had to build on new foundations,
in Dolny Slask they tried to use old German roads as fundation and that`s
the result
__________________

Kanadzie liked this post

Last edited by jtybinka; November 25th, 2014 at 11:02 AM.
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #13326
[BÉTON!BRUT!]
Liberté Égalité Beyoncé
 
[BÉTON!BRUT!]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Prestiżowy Mokotów Gwiazd
Posts: 18,731
Likes (Received): 120740

Seriously, I do not know what you are writing about.

Apparently some other country I know nothing about.
[BÉTON!BRUT!] no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #13327
Maciek_CK
Great Scott!
 
Maciek_CK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kielce
Posts: 937
Likes (Received): 1026

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
a lot of cars for early post soviet days. Anyone know what the car ownership rate was like back then? how fast did it increase once Poland converted to capitalism?
In 1990 there were 5 260 000 passenger cars. As of 31 December 2013 there were 19 389 446 passenger cars. The total number of passenger cars, motorcycles, mopeds, lorries and tractors was 28 645 639.
__________________
Keep calm and generate 1.21 jigowatts of electricity.

Last edited by Maciek_CK; November 25th, 2014 at 08:52 PM. Reason: correct data
Maciek_CK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 05:29 PM   #13328
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

327 000 , not possible
Only policy , ambulances , company cars , lorries , pickups would be more
I would guess today we have 3 times more cars
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 05:31 PM   #13329
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

road quality

This is some research of Dolny Slask
I just quickly put out of my head road quality on the roads I was driving ,
This is not perfect as some roads can be terrible but 2 kilometres can be brand new
But my quick list shows something,
I hope it shows that I`m not puting interia/onet type of comments on this forum
I understand that reality is much different then nice pictures showing DTS crossing
A4 but well that`s reality , in Opolskie , Pomorskie I didn`t notcie much difference
in my opinion Malopolskie , Slaskie looks better , Lubuskie same

GOOD
-----------------------------------------
DK94
DW389
DW323
DW384 Dzierzoniow Lagiewniki - excellent
DK5 Kostomloty - Bolkow
DK3 Legnica - Gaworzyce
DK36 Walbrzych - Mieroszow
DK3 Bolkow - Jakuszyce
DK46 Koldzko - Paczkow

AVERAGE
------------------------------------------
DK39
DK8 Wroclaw - Klodzko
DK33
DW382 Strzegom - Zabkowice
DW381
DW338
DW364
DW355
DW358
DW335
DK94 Prochowice - Legnica
DW319
DW278

BAD
----------------------------------------------
DK36
D5 Bolkow Kamienna
DK 3 Legnica - Jawor
DK35
DW375
DW341
DW345
DW340
Dw363
DW365
DW323
DW367

VERY BAD
----------------------------------------------
DW382 Zabkowice - Paczkow
DW374
DW379
DW383
DW384
DW346
DW385

Last edited by jtybinka; November 25th, 2014 at 05:39 PM.
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 07:32 PM   #13330
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Still some gravel roads, yes? How many kilometers of gravel roads are being paved per year?
Have some answer for your question , spent some time searching your question cause it is very interesting. Well it confirms what I replied you that I don`t see much problem with gravel roads but quality
This info is from GUS - General Statistic Office


2011

280 000 total roads DK , DW , Powiat , Gmina
258 000 so called improved pavement (more or less this is asphalt)

means 22 000 without pavement
what actually is quite good
because these roads I guess go
nowhere , to reach the field by tractor etc, forest roads
I would advise - just leave them for cows and deers
but not for quad drivers if they are in forest


what`s the quality of "improved pavement" I already explained
but from that point of view not bad I would say

Unfortunately GUS doesn`t say anything about the situation before 2005
or you must buy this data ??? I don`t know

Found that in 1960 - 1970 , 26 000 km roads were build - according to some article in GDDKIA
same what we build with EU money 2005 -2011

2005 254 000 km
2010 274 000 km
2011 280 000 km

pity we can`t compare
1970 -1980
1980 - 1990
1990 - 2000
2000 - 2005

They only say that in 1973 they started new program and build
54 000 km and rebuild 87 000 what gives 141 000
well they don`t say when this program ended.
__________________

mcarling liked this post

Last edited by jtybinka; November 25th, 2014 at 09:08 PM.
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 07:39 PM   #13331
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Ok, so I guess the 22,000 kilometers includes both gravel roads and dirt roads. 258,000 out of 280,000 is over 92%, which I think is great considering it's only been 25 years since the occupation ended. It seems to me (from my own driving experience) that Latvia and Lithuania probably have a higher percentage of unpaved roads, but I do not have any data. It's nice to see the minor roads connecting small villages getting paved.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 08:03 PM   #13332
Luki_SL
Moderator
 
Luki_SL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Upper Silesia
Posts: 53,766
Likes (Received): 17448

Road quality in Poland : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...39&postcount=1
green - very good, ...., red - very bad
jtybinka - if you have any new informations about any road quality, why don`t you post it in the topic I linked
__________________
"Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life"

[BÉTON!BRUT!] liked this post
Luki_SL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #13333
Kemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Segiet
Posts: 10,735
Likes (Received): 18772

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Still some gravel roads, yes? How many kilometers of gravel roads are being paved per year?
There are no gravel/dirt roads on DK network.
There are still some gravel/dirt roads on DW network, but majority of such roads should not be signed DW in the first place anyway. Because they just connect some villages in the woods. Examples: https://maps.google.pl/maps?ll=52.68...299.13,,0,8.91
https://maps.google.pl/maps?ll=52.79...,121.74,,0,2.9

However, there are some DW roads that are coherent parts of the network if you look at the map but are dirt roads in the reality. Example - part of DW867:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=998

This specific section was paved and finally opened in this month.
Kemo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 08:20 PM   #13334
rakcancer
Registered User
 
rakcancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: XYZ
Posts: 1,198
Likes (Received): 1170

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luki_SL View Post
Road quality in Poland : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...39&postcount=1
green - very good, ...., red - very bad
jtybinka - if you have any new informations about any road quality, why don`t you post it in the topic I linked
This piece of broken A18 making me mad particularly
rakcancer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 08:36 PM   #13335
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
There are no gravel/dirt roads on DK network.
There are still some gravel/dirt roads on DW network, but majority of such roads should not be signed DW in the first place anyway. Because they just connect some villages in the woods. Examples: [url]https://maps.google.pl.
OK , clear , great you showed me the picture gravel roads would be within this 22 000 km
as you say - this is very , good

I was rather thinking that you mean that DW roads have pavement
like Krakow XIX century Main Market , fortunately this streches
are short but in Sowie Gory you can have accident even with
30 km and hour on this,
No gravel DW roads , I complained a lot but no way you see gravel DW road in PL
have in mind that this is let say class 2 , 1-DK , 2 - DW , 3- Powiat 4 Gminne
DW very often bumpy , many patches , and sometimes they repair
only on both sides but they don`t touch middle.
That`s kind of poor version.
Well in Pomorskie I saw DW roads paved with stones taken
from the agriculture area and that is untouched since 1930

Last edited by jtybinka; November 25th, 2014 at 09:00 PM.
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #13336
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luki_SL View Post
Road quality in Poland : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...39&postcount=1
green - very good, ...., red - very bad
jtybinka - if you have any new informations about any road quality, why don`t you post it in the topic I linked
I already sent some short update , I will review and check what I know
I don`t know as much as a year ago , 2 years ago..........
The problem is that I change my car for Newag Impuls and I go 160 km/h legally :-)
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #13337
Maciek_CK
Great Scott!
 
Maciek_CK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kielce
Posts: 937
Likes (Received): 1026

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
There are no gravel/dirt roads on DK network
There are, however, parts like this: http://goo.gl/sE714K where 40 km/h speed limit is more than adequate.
__________________
Keep calm and generate 1.21 jigowatts of electricity.
Maciek_CK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 10:18 PM   #13338
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciek_CK View Post
There are, however, parts like this: http://goo.gl/sE714K ....
A cobblestone road!!! I don't recall seeing one in Poland. There are some new cobblestone streets in Vilnius old town, built with stones imported from China.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 10:35 PM   #13339
Czas na Żywiec
Globetrekker
 
Czas na Żywiec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,076
Likes (Received): 1046

My favorite DK is this section here

https://www.google.pl/maps/@54.04940...o7mAwOztFQ!2e0
__________________
My Travels

AR AT BE BG BR CA CH CZ DE DK EE ES FI FR HR HU IE IT LT LU LV NL PL RO RS SE SI SK TR UA UK US UY
Czas na Żywiec no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2014, 10:42 PM   #13340
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

Passanger cars in Poland

1980 2383 tys
1985 3671 tys
1990 5260
1995 7517
2000 9991
2005 12339
2010 17240 tys


Road construction

1950 — 120 000 km
1960 — 120 000 km they say we were mostly reapairing after WAR
1970 — 155 000 km + 25 000 km
1980 — 170 000 km + 25 000 km
1990 — 220 000 km + 50 000 km
1995 — 230 000 km + 10 000 km
1998 — 245 000 km + 15 000 km
2000 — 250 000 km + 5 000 km
2003 — 250 000 km + 0 000 km
2005 — 254 000 km + 4 000 km
2010 — 274 000 km + 20 000 km
2011 — 280 000 km + 6 000 km
----------------------------
Rail tracks reconstruction

1989 2206 km!!!
1990 1871 km !!!
2000 342
2006 380
2008 631

Last edited by jtybinka; November 25th, 2014 at 11:10 PM.
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autostrady, expressways, highway, motorways, polish motorways, polish roads, polskie drogi, road

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium