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Old December 23rd, 2014, 05:18 PM   #13541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Just a small note - there's plenty of work underway already on the S5 near Korzensko - I wouldn't be shocked if the section between Korzensko and Trzebnica opens ahead of schedule.
There is also a lot of activity on S7 Jędrzejów - voivodeships' border:

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Old December 23rd, 2014, 05:28 PM   #13542
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Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
S51.
We have a winner for contract of 13.3 km long section of S51 between Olsztynek and Olsztyn. The company is Energopol-Szczecin SA.
Source:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/17401/...-na-budowe-S51


Just to add one more thing. New contract starts from Ameryka



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Old December 23rd, 2014, 05:36 PM   #13543
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
S8 Mężenin - Jeżewo is a design and build contract too, isn't it?
No. But winter months are excluded from the duration of the contract. So theoretically they should start on March
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 06:39 PM   #13544
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This winter in Poland is very mild so far, the constructruction activity goes so far without major interruption.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 12:18 AM   #13545
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Road safety statistics for November 2014

November

Number of road accidents

- 2014: 2.588
- 2013: 2.989
- 2012: 3.020
- 2011: 3.021

Road fatalities

- 2014: 269
- 2013: 293
- 2012: 336
- 2011: 318

Number of wounded

- 2014: 3.005
- 2013: 2.595
- 2012: 3.561
- 2011: 3.662

January - November

Number of road accidents

- 2014: 31.585
- 2013: 32.529
- 2012: 34.040
- 2011: 36.072

Road fatalities

- 2014: 2.869
- 2013: 3.035
- 2012: 3.278
- 2011: 3.712

Number of wounded

- 2014: 38.509
- 2013: 40.042
- 2012: 42.111
- 2011: 44.809

http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruch...esiecznym.html
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Old December 29th, 2014, 02:50 PM   #13546
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Yes , as I said some time ago - most of the problem is in brain , road quality of course important , but brain is number ONE
Seems that In UK they have comparable lenght of motorway network to Poland but they don`t have accidents, probably they drive with brain
They have A class roads as well but their size of traffic is much bigger
Driving is just transportation but many people think it`s sport
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Last edited by jtybinka; December 29th, 2014 at 03:03 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #13547
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These data should be interpreted in relative terms.

Still, that's very high! As a matter of fact, the tempo is quite slow compared with some Western European countries (as we talked, last year Belgium had a higher drop of road-related fatalities than Poland).

After all, between 2012 and 2013, Poland passed again on the top, from the 3rd most road-deadly country in the whole EU to the 2nd position anew! Only Romania is worse in this field.

For comparison, Spain with 47 Millions inhabitants (+24% more population than Poland) had in 2013:
Road fatalities: 1'680 (-12% drop from 2012!)
Seriously injured: 10'086

This reduction is good to take, but far from being enough.
Also, the means to fight dangerous drivers are still insufficient and lax.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #13548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
For comparison, Spain with 47 Millions inhabitants (+24% more population than Poland) had in 2013:
Road fatalities: 1'680 (-12% drop from 2012!)
That is a huge gap.
2013 Road fatalities in Spain: 1680, in less populated Poland: 3035
Drop from 3035 in 2013 to 2.869 a year later is not that impressive. If this is going to be a pattern for next years Poland may be able to catch up with countries like Spain maybe in 15 years considering that Spain will improve slowly in that time too.... Not that shiny future for Poland...
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Old December 29th, 2014, 05:43 PM   #13549
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Today's Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper is writing about delays of tender process for southern bypass of Warsaw. This is a Design and Build project. There are some conclusions that delays (already a year behind of original schedule and 6 unsuccessful deadlines determining a winners of contracts) are caused by badly prepared tenders. GDDKiA have to answer thousands of questions asked by companies demanding detailed information which is a time consuming. Next approach for finding out contract winners are scheduled in end of January.
Source:
http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/1...hpbiz=warszawa

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Old December 29th, 2014, 05:44 PM   #13550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
That is a huge gap.
2013 Road fatalities in Spain: 1680, in less populated Poland: 3035
Drop from 3035 in 2013 to 2.869 a year later is not that impressive. If this is going to be a pattern for next years Poland may be able to catch up with countries like Spain maybe in 15 years considering that Spain will improve slowly in that time too.... Not that shiny future for Poland...
Correction, this figure is only from January till November.

In fact, there was 3357 road fatalities in 2013 on Polish roads.
Which is the double of more populated Spain.

http://www.a2dokariery.autostrada-a2.pl/entries:31
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Old December 29th, 2014, 06:05 PM   #13551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Today's Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper is writing about delays of tender process for southern bypass of Warsaw. This is a Design and Build project. There are some conclusions that delays (already a year behind of original schedule and 6 unsuccessful deadlines determining a winners of contracts) are caused by badly prepared tenders. GDDKiA have to answer thousands of questions asked by companies demanding detailed information which is a time consuming. Next approach for finding out contract winners are scheduled in end of January.
The GDDKiA announced that the Gazeta Wyborcza article contains a number of false information which may mislead readers.
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/17457/...zety-Wyborczej
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Old December 29th, 2014, 06:09 PM   #13552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Today's Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper is writing about delays of tender process for southern bypass of Warsaw. This is a Design and Build project. There are some conclusions that delays (already a year behind of original schedule and 6 unsuccessful deadlines determining a winners of contracts) are caused by badly prepared tenders. GDDKiA have to answer thousands of questions asked by companies demanding detailed information which is a time consuming. Next approach for finding out contract winners are scheduled in end of January.
Source:
http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/1...hpbiz=warszawa
For those who cannot read Polish. This article is, basically, a piece of bullshit. There is an official response published to this article, here. It is one of the most complex, if not the most complex, road infrastructure tenders in Poland, 2400 questions is not a surprise. These questions have to be answered and it does take time. No one mentions that such delays are occurring on any road construction contracts currently in Poland, just to name the S7 near Ostróda.

So please stop spreading this bullshit across the world...
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Old December 29th, 2014, 06:40 PM   #13553
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Originally Posted by macieii View Post
So please stop spreading this bullshit across the world...
First of all you are not a judge here to tell others what to publish or not. We live in free world not somewhere in censored country behind an iron curtain.
Secondly, GDDKiA answer to that article wasn't that harsh as your full of b...shit language. As a matter of fact they agreed that it was a lot of questions to be answered then they explained how tender process, especially for Design and Build system works. And that was basically whole answer for GW article which of course contains lots of inaccuracy.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 07:15 PM   #13554
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Poland may be able to catch up with countries like Spain maybe in 15 years considering that Spain will improve slowly in that time too.... Not that shiny future for Poland..
Poland also has crap drivers from other countries transiting. Lithuanians are the worst drivers I've seen in Europe and Poland is their main transit corridor.

Spain and Portugal were both as bad as Poland only 10 years ago. They improved matters since but mainly by 2012 and are not improving as much any more. They built a lot of roads between 2004 and 2012.

Better roads and more traffic police make up most of the difference in accidents.

The other factors that help are driver education, a scheme to take the worst 20% of cars off the road with tax breaks over 2 or 3 years and annual car testing after a car is 10 years old.

Spain was where Poland is today as recently as 2006 and even Germany was as bad as recently as 1998 and France in 2003.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 09:07 PM   #13555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
First of all you are not a judge here to tell others what to publish or not. We live in free world not somewhere in censored country behind an iron curtain.
Secondly, GDDKiA answer to that article wasn't that harsh as your full of b...shit language. As a matter of fact they agreed that it was a lot of questions to be answered then they explained how tender process, especially for Design and Build system works. And that was basically whole answer for GW article which of course contains lots of inaccuracy.
Contrary to GDDKiA I don't have to be politically correct... Why do you publish this ... crap ? I guess you have just found something sensational... and feel the compelling need to share it with the world. Without even understanding what's the reality and truth, just like the journalists from Gazeta Wyborcza.

So indeed, I am not a judge. But I can express my opinion... So that the non-Polish speaking people who read this thread have a ... bit more balanced view.

EOT.

Last edited by macieii; December 29th, 2014 at 09:12 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 09:28 PM   #13556
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So why don't you tell our non polish speaking viewers what GDDKiA says? I think it would be more interesting intellectually to tell them what really is a problem here not just reject everything with simple B***shit words...
And BTW what GDDKiA says it doesn't always means it is everything perfectly correct and true.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #13557
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Take it easy guys
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Old December 29th, 2014, 10:45 PM   #13558
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Guys, keep calm.
I understand Gazeta Wyborcza is absolutely not the most reliable of Polish newspapers in any level - infrastructure, political, etc., and on this I fully agree with macieii.
However, there are ways to tell it ... and "bullshit" may not be the best of the ways to state that. Let's talk about the Polish press in detail elsewhere.
End of OT and of this intra-Polish fight
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Old December 29th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #13559
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Originally Posted by jtybinka View Post
Yes , as I said some time ago - most of the problem is in brain , road quality of course important , but brain is number ONE
Seems that In UK they have comparable lenght of motorway network to Poland but they don`t have accidents, probably they drive with brain
They have A class roads as well but their size of traffic is much bigger
Driving is just transportation but many people think it`s sport
'For the average person in western Europe car is a form of transport, for a Pole - it's a fighting style'
We have a lot to learn from countries like Germany, Sweden, UK, Denmark, Holland etc.
.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 11:24 PM   #13560
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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
1) Poland also has crap drivers from other countries transiting. Lithuanians are the worst drivers I've seen in Europe and Poland is their main transit corridor.

2) Spain and Portugal were both as bad as Poland only 10 years ago. They improved matters since but mainly by 2012 and are not improving as much any more. They built a lot of roads between 2004 and 2012.

3) Better roads and more traffic police make up most of the difference in accidents.

4) The other factors that help are driver education, a scheme to take the worst 20% of cars off the road with tax breaks over 2 or 3 years and annual car testing after a car is 10 years old.

5) Spain was where Poland is today as recently as 2006 and even Germany was as bad as recently as 1998 and France in 2003.
While I agree on some points, other are just inconsistent.

1) Actually, Lithuania has a lower road death rate than Poland (but it's slightly less, not a big deal). Anyway, both countries seems to have the same bad habits among drivers. Remember that Lithuania has less than 3 mln. inhabitants, you can simply not say that it's because of them that there are so many road fatalities and injuries!

2) As I showed previously, Spain did reduce by 12% of its road fatalities last year; that's way better than Poland meanwhile.

3) Not only, but drivers mentality in given country and respect of others as well.

4) Though, your example of old cars, over 10 years, is quite insignificant, as the technical controls still remains all over EU, and they must generally be in safe and good condition to be approved (theoretically). The driver surely is the main problem.

5) Yes, Spain had the same total number of road fatalities than Poland today, but back in 2001 not 2006, despite of having more vehicles per inhabitant. What should intrigue you is how did they managed to reduce it to less than half road death of Poland, and it's not only because of motorway construction!
As a matter of fact, Germany had always had a good and extensive Autobahn network, but still, it had a relatively high death rate until 1997 (comparable to Poland today). So, to point that solutions are elsewhere too!

Last edited by John Maynard; December 29th, 2014 at 11:30 PM.
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