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Old December 30th, 2014, 12:15 AM   #13561
i15
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I think main problem in Poland is the type of settlements - neverending villages with seperated houses and many crossroads. There is higher risk of hitting a pedestrian, or hitting car coming from secondary road. It also results in less space between setllements where you can overtake slower vehicles safely. Speed limit changes a lot and it can be quite annoying. The more speed limit changes, the more people ignore it. It's a fact and it doesn't matter if person is Slavic or German.

It's just my humble opinion. I'm comparing it to Slovakia and I've never been anywhere expect southern Poland.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 12:26 AM   #13562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macieii View Post
For those who cannot read Polish. This article is, basically, a piece of bullshit.
S2 what is exceptional for journalist with this tender ? It`s not delayed,
It goes normal or even faster then other contracts
S2 was announced 18.12.2014

Nowa Sol - Legnica
S3 was announced 23-30.08.2014 (5 parts) - 3 parts were signed just before Christmas
2 parts are not even signed yet

so S2 is even 4 months ahead

Not even worth to discuss , is it so difficult to check the date of 18.12.2014 and count
months ? probably for journalists it`s too difficult

The time was lost between 1995-2007 not now

Last edited by jtybinka; December 30th, 2014 at 12:42 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 12:29 AM   #13563
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Quote:
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I think main problem in Poland is the type of settlements - .
you are right , whenever I go to Slovakia immediately I see that houses
are close together , you really notice this
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Old December 30th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #13564
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The main problem is aggressive driving style in combination with very bad driving skills
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Old December 30th, 2014, 02:55 AM   #13565
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Tbh, the main problem imho with driving in Poland is bold overtaking manoeuvres at unsafe places ( like intersections). I remember the many head on collisions you came across everywhere. And the drunk drivers, it's ridiculous how many drunkards were on the roads the past few times I've been there.

But on the positive side:
The fact that people move out of the way and say thank you when you move out of the way for them, personally makes driving in Poland on ''country'' roads better than on N roads in Holland, where you always end up stuck behind some grandpa or truck with an overtaking ban.

People respect people who want to go faster better, while in Holland you're treated with a concert of full beams and horns if you drive significantly faster than the rest from sleeping sheep and grey haired drivers who are startled by the faster speed or overtake at a place with a solid white line ( though it's very area dependant, Zeeland on provincial roads is the worst imho, but also on the A58, while on the more ''through roads'' like the A16 or A1 nobody bats a 2nd eye if you drive a bit faster).

In Poland also, on motorways you can comfortably do 160-180 km/h on cruise control without to much issues ( only overtaking trucks slow you down really).
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Last edited by snowdog; December 30th, 2014 at 03:58 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #13566
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Actually it is hard to compare 2 countries with such an enormous difference in population and traffic density. I strongly believe this balances in favor of Lithuanian statistics, and less densely populated countries in general.

I'd say the bad habits of Polish drivers is driving quite fast even out of motorways (and especially built-up areas) combined with cyclists and pedestrians' bad habits (no reflectors or flashlights during the night, riding like crazy in built-up areas)

In the case of Lithuania... You have to be VERY careful when driving on hilly, narrow or curvy roads. People overtake without even making sure there is any vehicle in front or ... Without visibility. Moreover, there is also this fog light madness ... And the fact that people, on dual carriageways, always stay either on the middle or on the left lane. In this case, Lithuanians have got much in common with people from the Paris area
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old December 30th, 2014, 11:29 AM   #13567
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The problem in Poland is the absolute lack of enforcement of driving laws. I've lost count of the amount of times that I've made illegal moves - turning left when its prohibited, overtaking in no overtaking zones (but when safe to do so), speeding (for instance, on the DK94 in Wroclaw at night) and so on. Yet in 5 years, I've been caught once. The problem is political - the Government saw how people reacted to the serious introduction of speed cameras, and as they depend on the car-driving class for votes, they're not going to risk any serious increase to the budget for traffic policing duties. Only yesterday in Wrocław, some idiot was overtaking people in the middle of the city on a cobbled road - and it was snowing.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #13568
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The biggest problem in Poland is the absurdities of law: putting people to prison for a chocolate bar worth 99 groszy (0,20 Euro), issuance of an European Arrest Warrant for a metal pipe, sending to jail people drinking a beer in public, 5 days sentence for conducting a bicycle without holding the steering wheel .

Meanwhile, the criminals on wheels are free to drive at speed as will in front of schools, endangering and killing children; pouncing on pedestrians crossing zebras, especially old persons that are dying all the time; overtaking at 200 km/h when there is incoming traffic, provoking unnecessary and massive road slaughters

Emphasizing the complete stupidity, lawlessness, despotism, absolute lack of pragmatism and common sense, corruption of the Polish lawmakers, judicial authorities and government, which may have lot in common with a third world country


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Old December 30th, 2014, 01:13 PM   #13569
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is this thread on Polish Motorways or on legal matters ?
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Old December 30th, 2014, 01:30 PM   #13570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
is this thread on Polish Motorways or on legal matters ?
My thoughts exactly
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Old December 30th, 2014, 02:42 PM   #13571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
That is a huge gap.
2013 Road fatalities in Spain: 1680, in less populated Poland: 3035
Drop from 3035 in 2013 to 2.869 a year later is not that impressive. If this is going to be a pattern for next years Poland may be able to catch up with countries like Spain maybe in 15 years considering that Spain will improve slowly in that time too.... Not that shiny future for Poland...
In Spain one of few matters that could be proud is that since 2005-2006 road fatalities have declined a lot. Law enforcement in traffic related matters have improved very much. For example only 10 years ago if you were driving drunk your punishment only could be a relatively small economic fine.
Today a drunk driver go to prison directly. (with the stigma, lost it's employment, big economic sanction...)

Speaking about Spain, most of death related accidents happen in secundary roads. We have a lot of motorways now (mostly free tolled), and principal routes and more of displacements are in motorways, but sadly secundary roads need a lot improvements.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 02:47 PM   #13572
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100 % agree with all post above
When I drive I always ask myself , where is police ? why they don`t control me ?
I don`t see them , I see policy 3 times a year maybe , I should see them
everyday. It`s so difficult to pay the fine in Poland.
Last 3 years I was controled 2 times by police - both 2 times on bicycle......
zero times in car...........

As you say in Poland stolen chocolate bar or cyclist is more importnat
then Polish idiot driving 150 km/h
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Old December 30th, 2014, 03:00 PM   #13573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
In Spain one of few matters that could be proud is that since 2005-2006 road fatalities have declined a lot.
2007 --> 2013:
Spain: 3,823 --> 1,721 (-55%)
Poland: 5,583 --> 3,342 (-41%)

France: 4,620 --> 3,268 (-30%)
Germany: 4,949 --> 3,339 (-33%)
Romania: 2,800 --> 1,861 (-34%)
Bulgaria: 1,006 --> 601 (-41%)
Denmark: 406 --> 180 (-56%)
Slovakia: 667 --> 225 (-66%)
Lithunia: 739 --> 258 (-66%)
Latvia: 419 --> 179 (-68%)
...
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Old December 30th, 2014, 07:10 PM   #13574
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A contract was signed for optimising design and construction of 12 km of S12 motorway, section Puławy - Sielce (interchange with S17). Completion date is 2018. Contractors: Energopol Szczecin, PRD Zwoleń
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Old December 30th, 2014, 07:24 PM   #13575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
is this thread on Polish Motorways or on legal matters ?
Have some videos then I think I haven't posted them here before.

DK74 between S7 and DK9:





Modernised DW786 in Świętokrzyskie region:

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Old December 31st, 2014, 01:18 AM   #13576
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Lots of discussion of road deaths and driving, but what about emergency services? If the ambulance takes 10 extra minutes to arrive you lose how many people...
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Old December 31st, 2014, 03:35 PM   #13577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i15 View Post
I think main problem in Poland is the type of settlements - neverending villages with seperated houses and many crossroads. There is higher risk of hitting a pedestrian, or hitting car coming from secondary road. It also results in less space between setllements where you can overtake slower vehicles safely. Speed limit changes a lot and it can be quite annoying. The more speed limit changes, the more people ignore it. It's a fact and it doesn't matter if person is Slavic or German.

It's just my humble opinion. I'm comparing it to Slovakia and I've never been anywhere expect southern Poland.
It doesn't concern the whole Poland. Its western side (Silesia, Greater Poland, Pomerania) is built-up more tightly and less messy. The border of partition is still visible, which actually is a bit complicated thing.
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Old December 31st, 2014, 04:07 PM   #13578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
The problem in Poland is the absolute lack of enforcement of driving laws. I've lost count of the amount of times that I've made illegal moves - turning left when its prohibited, overtaking in no overtaking zones (but when safe to do so), speeding (for instance, on the DK94 in Wroclaw at night) and so on. Yet in 5 years, I've been caught once. The problem is political - the Government saw how people reacted to the serious introduction of speed cameras, and as they depend on the car-driving class for votes, they're not going to risk any serious increase to the budget for traffic policing duties. Only yesterday in Wrocław, some idiot was overtaking people in the middle of the city on a cobbled road - and it was snowing.
One persons view is that it's ''lawlessness'', another view is that it's a pleasant & great freedom as a driver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
The biggest problem in Poland is the absurdities of law: putting people to prison for a chocolate bar worth 99 groszy (0,20 Euro), issuance of an European Arrest Warrant for a metal pipe, sending to jail people drinking a beer in public, 5 days sentence for conducting a bicycle without holding the steering wheel .
Tbh, some things are indeed retarded, but I'm all for prisoning people who steal. Speeding is a harmless crime most of the time, stealing is not.

It's a godsend to drive on the A2 in Poland without having to obsessively watch your speedo. And on country roads you are always flashed well in advance for a speed/cash trap by oncoming drivers.

The urban driving behaviour is indeed not very social, and I wonder how people get away with things in Warsaw ( cars jumping the queue at traffic lights, cutting in front, overtaking and ignoring pedestrian crossings, unsafe conduct near cyclists, etc...).

However outside of built-up areas on dual carriageways and especially on motorways, come on, give people a break, there isn't really any enforcement needed there. And if there is enforcement, it shouldn't be on speed but on the things that actually cause accidents: Right of way issues, bad overtaking, etc...

There should be more regular policing, not traffic policing, which applies to pretty much every country in Europe .


Personally I hope they destroy the toll booths and make them electronic in Poland, it's silly how often you have ( or had, it's been a while) to stop to pay.
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Old December 31st, 2014, 07:35 PM   #13579
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indeed, driving in Poland is relatively enjoyable

I think the safety issue is valid, BUT, fatalities are consistently decreasing with a good rate - so what is the major pressing factor? Spain might have had their global number go down faster since 2007, but it's probably because nobody in the country can afford gasoline anymore...
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Old December 31st, 2014, 09:03 PM   #13580
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The problem is that Polish drivers aren't really responsible with the freedom that they've got. No-one minds someone doing 160km/h on the motorway, but I thoroughly object to someone flashing their lights at me and thumping their steering wheel just because I won't go 70km/h in the city. For me, the most sensible solution in Poland would be to equip some unmarked cars with cameras and simply drive around the cities. Leave the expressways/motorways alone (like snowdog says, it's rarely an issue there) and focus on the idiotic behaviour within cities. I'd also be very in favour of the police being allowed to seize registration documents and driving licences for up to two weeks - many of the "I drive like an idiot because I am the man" type brigade would be hurt tremendously by this. The car is still a status symbol in Poland, and taking it away temporarily is like castrating the victim.

Last edited by Eulanthe; December 31st, 2014 at 09:08 PM.
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