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Old May 9th, 2015, 11:12 AM   #14221
Eulanthe
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That section of S5 is badly, badly needed. The delays in Komorniki can be horrendous, and coming from the north, it's so unbelievably frustrating to be dumped from the bypass of Poznań into the mess at Komoroniki.

If at least, this section along with S5 from Leszno-Wrocław can be completed by 2017, then I'll be a very happy man. It will take Poznań-Wrocław down to 1.45ish, which is tolerable.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 12:45 PM   #14222
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A1 Stryków - Tuszyn, new aerial photos :

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Old May 9th, 2015, 12:53 PM   #14223
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Concrete
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Old May 9th, 2015, 04:11 PM   #14224
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All section Stryków-Tuszyn will be in concrete
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Old May 9th, 2015, 05:43 PM   #14225
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That section of A1 - Łódź bypass will have very heavy traffic volume since it connects A1, A2 and S8. Concrete is very appreciated here.

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Old May 9th, 2015, 05:49 PM   #14226
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Until you have to replace it.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 06:07 PM   #14227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
That section of S5 is badly, badly needed. The delays in Komorniki can be horrendous, and coming from the north, it's so unbelievably frustrating to be dumped from the bypass of Poznań into the mess at Komoroniki.
This is a case of most big cities in Poland - missing links just from outskirts of towns where traffic is heaviest. As Poznan needs direct access to S5, Warszawa badly needs S8 and and S7 in both directions, Krakow S7 in both directions, Gdansk S7, Wroclaw S5... and most of these projects because of cost and complexity even if should be one of the priorities after so many years of construction boom still are only in different stages of planning with exception of S8 south in Warszawa being under construction.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #14228
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Quote:
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Until you have to replace it.
DK 18
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Old May 10th, 2015, 04:55 AM   #14229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
This is a case of most big cities in Poland - missing links just from outskirts of towns where traffic is heaviest. As Poznan needs direct access to S5, Warszawa badly needs S8 and and S7 in both directions, Krakow S7 in both directions, Gdansk S7, Wroclaw S5... and most of these projects because of cost and complexity even if should be one of the priorities after so many years of construction boom still are only in different stages of planning with exception of S8 south in Warszawa being under construction.
You hit the spot there! Yes to S5 southwards towards Brno and Vienna.
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Old May 10th, 2015, 03:32 PM   #14230
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You hit the spot there! Yes to S5 southwards towards Brno and Vienna.
It's a dream, but a distant one. I'd be happy with the S5 extended south to Lagiewniki and the DK33 upgraded a bit. Traffic is getting worse and worse between the A4 and Lagiewniki, but you can make decent time on the DK8 after that. The DK33 is a bit of a disaster in some areas though, especially on the final section near Miedzylesie. If it could be combined with a decent road to Cervena Voda from Bludov in the CR, then it would be quite tolerable.

Still, I dream about S8 to Kłodzko, it would mean no problems at all with doing Croatia in a day. I can drive from Zagreb to Wrocław in a day, but I tried once to go beyond Zagreb and ended up almost falling asleep at the wheel once I passed the Rijeka turnoff.
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Old May 10th, 2015, 03:35 PM   #14231
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Quote:
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All section Stryków-Tuszyn will be in concrete
Concrete is good... 2x2 is a shame.
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Old May 11th, 2015, 08:47 AM   #14232
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Expressway S8 - Bypass Janki and Raszyn

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Old May 11th, 2015, 03:13 PM   #14233
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Concrete is good... 2x2 is a shame.
But why concrete instead if asphalt?
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Old May 11th, 2015, 03:39 PM   #14234
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Why not?
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Old May 11th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #14235
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Concrete is more resistant for heavy trucks and for weather conditions. It is more expensive to build but much cheaper to maintain vs asphalt surfaces.
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Old May 11th, 2015, 05:38 PM   #14236
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But you'll end up with a bumpy surface the last decade of its service life. At some point cracks will appear and concrete bits will have to be replaced, which is pretty much impossible to repair smoothly. In addition, replacing concrete takes more time and disrupts traffic much more than an overnight or weekend asphalt replacement.
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Old May 11th, 2015, 06:09 PM   #14237
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Major replacement of concrete surface is needed every 20-30 years vs 10-15 years for asphalt. On the top of that, asphalt needs to be repaired after every winter by sealing potholes and cracks and is much more sensitive for hot summers creating uneven, bumpy surface that need to be repaved. How is this better?
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Old May 11th, 2015, 07:20 PM   #14238
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Because asphalt can be repaired quickly. The Netherlands has asphalt everywhere and there are almost no typical long-term 'baustelles' like you see in Germany for regular maintenance. Most repaving is done overnight or during a weekend. In addition, asphalt can be repaired more smoothly.

Concrete on the other hand, becomes more uneven after every repair. So out of a 20-30 year lifecycle, you'll only have the first decade or so with smooth pavement, after that the quality degrades over time with all the crack repairs. But because concrete lasts long, even with repairs, you'll have the last half of the life cycle with bumpy pavement.

Quality control is another issue. They have to replace hundreds of kilometers of concrete Autobahn in Germany due to an alkaline reaction. The cost of replacing substandard concrete is much greater than an asphalt repair.

A major factor is traffic disruption. Asphalt can be repaired quickly. Concrete renovation requires long-term road works, especially on 2x2 motorways that will have much higher traffic volumes in 20 years this can cause major traffic disruption. Those long lasting road works with narrow lanes and lane switches / closures are very uncommon in the Netherlands.

Drainage and noise abatement is also much better with asphalt.
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Old May 11th, 2015, 07:45 PM   #14239
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So beside cost it comes to that: asphalt is easier and quicker to repair while concrete needs to be repaired less frequently. I am not sure why that is in your opinion much bigger advantage of asphalt here. Honestly, I would prefer have one major reconstruction once a while than be pissed off at "permanent" repairs like in case of A4 between Krakow and Katowice...
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Old May 11th, 2015, 08:32 PM   #14240
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In 20 years it's not 'once in a while', but a whole network that needs replacement or major renovation. That means 10 years of long-term road works everywhere there is concrete. At that time, traffic volumes will be substantially higher than today.

Just see in France, they almost exclusively use asphalt, and there are practically no road works that disrupt traffic. And the pavement is of excellent quality. Same in the Netherlands.
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