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Old September 30th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #14701
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
The thing is that this section of A4 needs to be upgraded. And since it requires massive roadworks and building most viaducts from scratch, it would be a waste not widening it to 2x3 lanes on this occasion. Wouldn't it?
In that case, the best scenario would be to build a second carriageway next to it, just like they did with the Reichsautobahn upgrade of A8 in Germany (Ulm - München).

That way all the substandard elements like the narrow median and sightlines can be improved.

It probably wouldn't cost that much more to build it like a six-lane motorway, as all bridges and overpasses would need replacement anyway, and a significant right-of-way expansion is needed even in a full-standard 2x2 scenario.

Though I agree with other comments that the traffic volumes are quite low for six lanes. On the other hand, if you invest that much into upgrading the motorway, it should be adequate for the next 30 or 40 years.

There were times when motorways were constructed in the past for traffic volumes we would today consider to be too low for a motorway in Western Europe (around 10,000 vpd). But in hindsight they are pretty useful.
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Old October 1st, 2015, 10:39 AM   #14702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In that case, the best scenario would be to build a second carriageway next to it, just like they did with the Reichsautobahn upgrade of A8 in Germany (Ulm - München).
Still, many of A8 section are 2X2 even if traffic is higher than Krzyzowa-Wroclaw section, as traffic flow do not require such an update.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That way all the substandard elements like the narrow median and sightlines can be improved.
That was done when they built the second carriageway further north on A18 - old RAB > wide of most overpasses is enough to accommodate a proper hard shoulder.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It probably wouldn't cost that much more to build it like a six-lane motorway, as all bridges and overpasses would need replacement anyway, and a significant right-of-way expansion is needed even in a full-standard 2x2 scenario.
That's not true, since all bridges and overpasses were totally renovated/rebuilt a short time ago. Furthermore, right of way is already there for proper 2X2 to be built.

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Though I agree with other comments that the traffic volumes are quite low for six lanes. On the other hand, if you invest that much into upgrading the motorway, it should be adequate for the next 30 or 40 years.
Priorities should go for roads with higher traffic, and not to invest for a lane widening on a low traffic motorway that doesn't need it, and was already rebuilt lastly + is there since Poland existed again. Think of all narrow and "shitty" roads that the country is full of , with huge traffic, locals that have more than enough and nuisance and danger of all this flow passing under their window, and serious, deadly accidents that would be much lower if the roads were just better - fit for traffic at least.


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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There were times when motorways were constructed in the past for traffic volumes we would today consider to be too low for a motorway in Western Europe (around 10,000 vpd). But in hindsight they are pretty useful.
FYI, in Poland there are many 2-lane roads that have a traffic flow which would require a widening to 2X3 in the "West" .
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Old October 1st, 2015, 01:11 PM   #14703
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That's not true, since all bridges and overpasses were totally renovated/rebuilt a short time ago.
I don't think it is true, most of these bridges are already 80 years old and "renovating' them doesn't help much.

Quote:
Priorities should go for roads with higher traffic, and not to invest for a lane widening on a low traffic motorway that doesn't need it
Also priorities should go for roads with high accident rate, and A4 is definitely one of them. Most of the time when you read about a serious accident on a Polish motorway, it is on A4 in Lower Silesian or Opole voivodships.
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Old October 1st, 2015, 09:43 PM   #14704
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What is the current progress on the Szczuczyn bypass?
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Old October 1st, 2015, 10:12 PM   #14705
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Photos from July/August (from the project website):









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Old October 2nd, 2015, 02:29 PM   #14706
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S14

Today was announced tender for construction of west bypass of Łódź, S14.

Part 1: Stretch I from junction „Łódź Lublinek” to junction „Łódź Teofilów” - 12,2 km
Part 2: Stretch II from junction „Łódź Teofilów” (no junction) to DK91 in Słowik - 16,4 km

Both as expressway 2x2.

Time schedule:
Part 1 - 26 months
Part 2 - 32 months
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 02:37 PM   #14707
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Łódź will therefore be the first city in Poland with full motorway ring. (Well, maybe Silesian metropolis will be first but A1-S1-A4 is not really a "ring".)

More news - S16 between Olsztyn (S51) and Ełk (S61) will be added to government's plans. Together with S5 between Grudziądz (A1) and Ostróda (S7). Also S10 will not be built along the old DK10, but near Płock. Western bypass of Szczecin (which was discussed on the previous page) will also be added to the plans.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 02:43 PM   #14708
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Interesting. Will S16 be designated as a droga ekspresowa and not DK16?
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 02:52 PM   #14709
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Yes, DK16 will designated as S16.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 02:54 PM   #14710
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Yes. There is already a 30km stretch of road with S standard (out of which 10 km is 2x2 motorway, the rest has one carriageway with space reservation for the second):

https://www.google.pl/maps/dir/53.83...20.8602893,11z

Also a part of Ełk bypass was built with S parameters: https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.84451...7i13312!8i6656
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 04:03 PM   #14711
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A1 Stryków-Tuszyn construction, aerial photos:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufffus View Post
Zdjęcia z dzisiaj, wybaczcie brak opisów ale nie orientuję sie w numeracji.

1.


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Cdn ...
More
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 04:16 PM   #14712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRC_100 View Post
S14

Today was announced tender for construction of west bypass of Łódź, S14.

Part 1: Stretch I from junction „Łódź Lublinek” to junction „Łódź Teofilów” - 12,2 km
Part 2: Stretch II from junction „Łódź Teofilów” (no junction) to DK91 in Słowik - 16,4 km

Both as expressway 2x2.

Time schedule:
Part 1 - 26 months
Part 2 - 32 months
Map of project:
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 04:27 PM   #14713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luki_SL View Post
A1 Stryków-Tuszyn construction, aerial photos:


More
It looks like nice 2x3... but unfortunately it is not....
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 07:02 PM   #14714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
S5 between Grudziądz (A1) and Ostróda (S7).
Why S5? It replaces DK16!? According to wikipedia, it should be S16.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 07:07 PM   #14715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Map of the project:
Ridiculous. Junction in Zgierz is named after its neighbour town "Aleksandrów Łódzki".

Is there someone especially hating Zgierz or it's just a bereaucrat who is THAT STUPID???

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Old October 2nd, 2015, 07:11 PM   #14716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
According to wikipedia, it should be S16.
Last update: 17 August.

Besides, Wikipedia is not always the best sourced. S16 was not part of the official expressway programme so far, even though some segments of DK16 were built to de-facto expressway standard.

I wonder if they plan to build the Ostróda - Olsztyn stretch soon, or if they are planning that east-west traffic should use S7+S51 via Olsztynek. It's not a huge detour in an area where rural traffic may not be sufficient to demand a triangle of expressways.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 07:26 PM   #14717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Why S5? It replaces DK16!? According to wikipedia, it should be S16.
Who cares
Probably because DK16 between Ostróda and Olsztyn is not included in the plans, so S16 would not have continuity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I wonder if they plan to build the Ostróda - Olsztyn stretch soon
It even had the EIA (blue colour on our maps), but it expired a few years ago...

Quote:
or if they are planning that east-west traffic should use S7+S51 via Olsztynek. It's not a huge detour in an area where rural traffic may not be sufficient to demand a triangle of expressways.
...so this is probably the case now.

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Ridiculous. Junction in Zgierz is named after its neighbour town "Aleksandrów Łódzki".

Is there someone especially hating Zgierz or it's just a bereaucrat who is THAT STUPID???
These are probably not the final names.
There is already a junction named "Zgierz" on A2. But it should be renamed to Zgierz North, and the junction on S14 renamed to Zgierz South or West.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 08:06 PM   #14718
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It looks like nice 2x3... but unfortunately it is not....
West of Łódź, there will be S14 expressway 2x2 in 3-4years
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 08:18 PM   #14719
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West of Łódź, there will be S14 expressway 2x2 in 3-4years
That is nice but A1 should be 2x3 in that place anyway. That stretch is going to serve traffic of A1 and between A2 and S8.... It is going to be nightmare like on A2 bypassing Poznan.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 08:20 PM   #14720
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As they are building A1 near Łódź in concrete, that supposedly doesn't need major reconstruction until the late 2030s or early 2040s, it may have been a better option to build it with 2x3 lanes from the start. This will be the preferred route for traffic from Wrocław to Warsaw.
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