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Old January 8th, 2016, 10:56 PM   #15121
ukraroad
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Forget Plonsk then
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Old January 8th, 2016, 11:06 PM   #15122
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Plonsk is much smaller town and has already dual carriageway road connecting to Warsaw.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 11:13 PM   #15123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Is there an actual need for S19 north of Białystok?
In the future there should be a GP/S direct road connection between Białystok & Suwałki (two main cities in Polish north-east) and S19 gives ~1/3 of it.

Have a look at it here:
http://mapa.miastodukty.pl/
(turn on "Drogi krajowe, wybrane regionalne i miejskie" layer)

The main issue is what to do with latitudinal connection from Knyszyn to border in Kuźnica. Such a huge north-western bypass of Białystok and Knyszyńska Forest area will never be cost-effective for users against current DK19 route (Kuźnica - Sokółka - Wasilków - Białystok).
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Old January 8th, 2016, 11:20 PM   #15124
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You must remember expressways are mainly built as the upgrade of the DK. S3 is the one of the only exception from this rule. S51 is 16 km long but that proposed part of yours as a separate road is 200 km, so the difference will be in: a) forests areas, b) cost(some €2.5 bln(at 12.5 km) vs about €1.5 bln. c)in cities connected and d) in the S10 connection(certainly longer). Plus that comment would be actual by 2000 and not now. S16 will be also built to shorten the Gdansk-Olsztyn road. So I guess it is a nice proposal, but the other expressways cover the cons of the S7, that's why it is the network
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Old January 8th, 2016, 11:23 PM   #15125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub Warszauer View Post
In the future there should be a GP/S direct road connection between Białystok & Suwałki (two main cities in Polish north-east) and S19 gives ~1/3 of it.

Have a look at it here:
http://mapa.miastodukty.pl/
(turn on "Drogi krajowe, wybrane regionalne i miejskie" layer)

The main issue is what to do with latitudinal connection from Knyszyn to border in Kuźnica. Such a huge north-western bypass of Białystok and Knyszyńska Forest area will never be cost-effective for users against current DK19 route (Kuźnica - Sokółka - Wasilków - Białystok).
GDDKIA deleted the Bialystok-Suwalki motorway by their plans from October, as I read from Wiki. @S19: what about Bialystok south bypass?
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Old January 8th, 2016, 11:39 PM   #15126
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IMHO there was too much rush and too little thinking to build S7 from Warsaw to Gdansk along old alignment. It would clearly be better if new S7 got closer to cities of Ciechanow and Olsztyn. It would cost probably more to build it but in exchange there would be no needs to build S51 from Ostroda to Olsztyn. I was thinking about this kind of solution:
Thinking long term though, doesn't the S51 mean that there's a possibility of building towards the S5? There's a very natural corridor running from Poznan-Bydgoszcz-Grudziądz-Iława-Olsztynek-Olsztyn-Augustów - which would open up Mazury to tourists from Western Poland as well as providing a route north from the west.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 12:07 AM   #15127
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No mention that it will also serve bigger number of people - Wloclawek and Plock vs much smaller towns.

IMHO there was too much rush and too little thinking to build S7 from Warsaw to Gdansk along old alignment. It would clearly be better if new S7 got closer to cities of Ciechanow and Olsztyn.
Too late for the northern part of that, but the southern part of your proposed S7 alignment is an excellent idea, in my opinion.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #15128
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Thinking long term though, doesn't the S51 mean that there's a possibility of building towards the S5? There's a very natural corridor running from Poznan-Bydgoszcz-Grudziądz-Iława-Olsztynek-Olsztyn-Augustów - which would open up Mazury to tourists from Western Poland as well as providing a route north from the west.
Yes. But it would make more sense to go closer to existing DK16 via Ostroda and Ilawa rather than along S51 via Olsztynek.:

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Old January 9th, 2016, 12:24 AM   #15129
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Originally Posted by ukraroad View Post
You must remember expressways are mainly built as the upgrade of the DK. S3 is the one of the only exception from this rule. S51 is 16 km long but that proposed part of yours as a separate road is 200 km, so the difference will be in: a) forests areas, b) cost(some €2.5 bln(at 12.5 km) vs about €1.5 bln. c)in cities connected and d) in the S10 connection(certainly longer). Plus that comment would be actual by 2000 and not now. S16 will be also built to shorten the Gdansk-Olsztyn road. So I guess it is a nice proposal, but the other expressways cover the cons of the S7, that's why it is the network
Well as you see, there is a proposal to change alignment of S10 totally so why it wouldn't be possible with S7? Second of all, there is more expressways build from scratch in Poland for example almost all S3 so far.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 01:47 AM   #15130
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It won't go around and there won't be a gap; it's just a prefix, because let's be honest - this is a proper motorway:

Needs a proper collector/express system. Even a backwater like Katowice has that
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Old January 9th, 2016, 07:28 AM   #15131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukraroad View Post
You must remember expressways are mainly built as the upgrade of the DK. S3 is the one of the only exception from this rule.
You are wrong. New expressways are mainly built in new route, the old national roads alignments become local roads. You can`t say that S5, S6, S8, S10, S61 are the upgrade of the DK (....)
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Old January 9th, 2016, 01:04 PM   #15132
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Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Yes. But it would make more sense to go closer to existing DK16 via Ostroda and Ilawa rather than along S51 via Olsztynek.
And such road is planned. Except for the section between Ostróda and Olsztyn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
IMHO there was too much rush and too little thinking to build S7 from Warsaw to Gdansk along old alignment. It would clearly be better if new S7 got closer to cities of Ciechanow and Olsztyn. It would cost probably more to build it but in exchange there would be no needs to build S51 from Ostroda to Olsztyn.
That would make sense but it is already too late for that. S7 north of Płońsk is in tender.
Ciechanów does not have access to motorways, but it has a railway.

Last edited by Kemo; January 9th, 2016 at 01:11 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 05:06 PM   #15133
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Originally Posted by Luki_SL View Post
You are wrong. New expressways are mainly built in new route, the old national roads alignments become local roads. You can`t say that S5, S6, S8, S10, S61 are the upgrade of the DK (....)
Blame wiki for that. I tried to change it but they deleted the point about separate road expwy
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Old January 9th, 2016, 06:36 PM   #15134
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Read the previous posts, wiki isn`t good source at all....
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Old January 11th, 2016, 10:42 AM   #15135
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Originally Posted by Luki_SL View Post
You are wrong. New expressways are mainly built in new route, the old national roads alignments become local roads. You can`t say that S5, S6, S8, S10, S61 are the upgrade of the DK (....)

What about the project with S7 from Gdansk to Elblag? Isn't that only an upgrade of the DK7 on that part?
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Old January 11th, 2016, 10:43 AM   #15136
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There will be a local road next to the expressway.
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Old January 11th, 2016, 11:32 AM   #15137
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Is it true that now the companies can avoid ZNRiD to obtain the permission of building as the result of the law accepted by the govts?
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Old January 11th, 2016, 12:47 PM   #15138
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Is it true A1 Poland near Lodz was delayed by four months? I remember in 2014 when I was editing A1 in Wiki the date was April, not August 2016
I guess the contract was canceled that time.

Please navigate to the edit list of my list to find all updates. I just enter A1.pl into my browser (FF). There are many A1 update entries but you can find the 12th October 2014 update. You can see what I've changed and a link to the source (contract signed with 22 months construction period).

The story of the construction can be found on Polish wikipedia or German wikipedia. A short summary (source: German wikipedia article):

Planning began in 1972. The detailed planning began in the early 2000's. The tender procedure began in 2005 (180km; PPP). The contract was awarded on 22nd January 2009. Deadline 31st May 2012. The contract was canceled on 23rd January 2010 due to financial issues. Afterwards, the project was split into sections. A new design and build contract for Lodz-Polnoc - Tuszyn (40km) was signed on 22nd December 2010. It was planned to begin the construction works in late 2011 and the planned opening date was late 2013. But the final building permits were not issued before August 2012 and the new deadline was late June 2014. There were some trouble with a sub contractor in mid 2013, a new sub contractor was found in November 2013, the updated completion date was late 2014. GDDKiA canceled the contract on 14th January 2014 because of delays in the construction progress (only 10% of the works had been completed in 2013). All contracts were canceled and a new tender procedure was started on 7th February 2014. The section was split into 3 sub sections and the planning documents had to be modified. The contract period is 22 months.

The German wikipedia article ends here but as mentioned before, the new contract was signed in October 2014. Add 22 months, and the new deadline is August 2016.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old January 11th, 2016, 01:17 PM   #15139
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I am in progress of completing all the articles from Polish, German are a bit inactual. I now work on the highways in poland
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Old January 11th, 2016, 07:33 PM   #15140
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Construction permit (ZnRID) was issued for a section of Marki bypass (S8 motorway), profile 2x3.

S8: Drewnica (S17) - Kobyłka 5.5km (January 2016 to July 2017) – projectmap
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