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Old January 19th, 2016, 08:46 AM   #15181
Proterra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Wow, it looks like one can drive between Warsaw and Katowice in under 3 hours (via S8 and DK1 Roadway).

That's not too bad imho
That's been for a while already. Made Nowy Targ once from Warsaw in 3h 20 using that road.

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Originally Posted by ukraroad View Post
About roads: S47 to Zakopane is also a simply wonderful decision, there are sometimes even traffic jams in the entrance to the town.
I've never heard of that, the only thing I've heard of is S47 to roughly where Color Park is going to be at the entrance to Szaflary.

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Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
???
If they build S47 to Zakopane, the only change will be that traffic jam will occupy two lanes instead of one
If they build S47 all the way down to Zakopane, it would just turn Zakopane into more of a parking lot than it already is. If they're smart, you would just build a huge parking garage opposite from Color Park where the S47 is supposed to end now on the entrance to Szaflary, make a stop for the train Nowy Targ-Zakopane, and start running trains between the two every half hour or so.

Charge 10 PLN per day for parking, and this will also allow two adults and two kids to use the train between Nowy Targ and Zakopane. One could even make it more attractive by allowing people with this ticket use of public transportation in the whole of Podhale for reduced fares.
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Old January 19th, 2016, 08:57 AM   #15182
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Well there is one for Malopolska. Your idea is wonderful: maybe 9000 lots for parking, and as I expect in winter they gonna be occupied all, they'll make a 900000 zl/day(but I think 15 zl is fine, or 2 zl per hour).
I mean the AADT to Zakopane is huge.
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Old January 19th, 2016, 11:27 AM   #15183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukraroad View Post
Well there is one for Malopolska. Your idea is wonderful: maybe 9000 lots for parking, and as I expect in winter they gonna be occupied all, they'll make a 900000 zl/day(but I think 15 zl is fine, or 2 zl per hour).
I mean the AADT to Zakopane is huge.
Maybe, but the idea should not be to maximize profit, but to minimize loss of quality of life for the population of Podhale. I would like to see something like this to be as affordable as possible while still making enough money to pay for the extra rail services between Nowy Targ (or maybe even Rabka) and Zakopane.

I just think that creating a freeway all the way down to Zakopane would be a horribly stupid idea, as it would only draw more road traffic into a small city with not much space to expand or deal with this traffic.
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Old January 19th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #15184
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I got it. Still there are trains evem from Warsaw
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Old January 20th, 2016, 06:11 PM   #15185
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Environmental decision has been issued on north Krakow ring:




red- regular route
blue- tunnel
green- noise barrier

11,6 km long, 4 tunnels. Not sure if it would follow S or GP standard, but anyway collision-free.

Although there is no financing for this project yet- it is a mile stone on the long way to save north of the city from a lot of transit.
Let's hope they will find a source of financing for this, so we may connect A4 from Katowice to S7 to Warsaw in a couple of years..
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Old January 20th, 2016, 07:13 PM   #15186
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There is no need to connect A4 and S7 via that S7 bypass(A4 complete), but still :bananas:! I hate those traffic jams on Opolska
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Old January 20th, 2016, 08:16 PM   #15187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukraroad View Post
There is no need to connect A4 and S7 via that S7 bypass(A4 complete),
Are you the major road planner in Poland ?
Have you made any simulations if you can say there is no need to build this road
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Old January 20th, 2016, 10:04 PM   #15188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seszele View Post
Environmental decision has been issued on north Krakow ring:




...so we may connect A4 from Katowice to S7 to Warsaw in a couple of years..
Serious? Do you think I am that stupid to say that this road is rubbish? For the purpose I quoted, there will be A4/S7. I appreciate the decision of GDDKiA to build the road, as I said I hate that traffic jams on Opolska. You must have misunderstood me.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 10:14 PM   #15189
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It's not GDDKiA road, it's Malopolskie Voivodeship road project
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Old January 20th, 2016, 10:17 PM   #15190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukraroad View Post
Serious? Do you think I am that stupid to say that this road is rubbish? For the purpose I quoted, there will be A4/S7. I appreciate the decision of GDDKiA to build the road, as I said I hate that traffic jams on Opolska. You must have misunderstood me.

For the sake of facts:

1. GDKKiA hasn't decided yet about construction nor the necessary financing. Long way to go.

2. The connection you described is rougly 30km longer. That's crazy amounts spent on gasoline everyday for additional km, more monies for viatoll and a lot of extratime. Most trucks will never sacrifice all above for the environmental purposes, as they are paid by hours and not by environmental awaraness level
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Old January 21st, 2016, 10:10 AM   #15191
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Usually, if any road institution issues DSU, it will pass up to 3-4 years there will be tender. Still, you are right. If everything goes smooth, we can see one bypassing Krakow by the northern side by this road somewhere in 2025 or later. @seszele: totally agree with you. Sorry for saying s***
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:01 PM   #15192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seszele View Post
Not sure if it would follow S or GP standard, but anyway collision-free.
It will be GP standard. See https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ka-igorsel.png
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:28 PM   #15193
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Sometimes there is no difference between GP and S.
Which is also the case on the existing section (signed DK94) https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.11645...7i13312!8i6656
It formally is a GP class road, but could be as well signed S.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:36 PM   #15194
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Quote:
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It formally is a GP class road, but could be as well signed S.
or motorway as well
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Old January 21st, 2016, 08:42 PM   #15195
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GP standard only because town of Zielonki opposed expressway standard as I remember. Similar situation like in case of S2 in Warsaw. Originally it supposed to be A2. The same brainwash by some local politics that it will be more quiet and less pollution made that road standard has been degraded...
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 03:59 PM   #15196
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well actually community of Zielonki (gmina Zielonki), but not a town.
AFAIK Zielonki are all for this investment, as there are over 2000 firms in the area, also because the number of residents has doubled in last 20 years. and all of them spent around 1 hour in a morning traffic jams. They indeed protested when there were plans not to use the 40 yo reserve for the road, but rather completely new route dividing this large settlement in two. And the latter was a condition from GDKKiA in order to design a transit expwy.

But now there is a tunnel designed in this location, so I guess everybody is happy with it


Anyway some more detailed info regarding northern ring of Krakow:

Parameters according to Voivodship of Malopolska shall be typical for an expressway (S):

3 exits: (1) DW 794, (2) – z DK7 in Węgrzce, (3) – Batowice; 2x3, 3,5 m.
total tunnel length: 2,71 km (1,91 and 0,8km)

Traffic intenisty estimateded: 40-50K

On 13th of January GDKKiA has sent a letter requesting details on projected road, as preparation for design and construction may be initialized.
It does not mean that GDKKiA would definitely retake this project and take care of it from now on, but there is a chance at least.


ATM investment is on a provision list of investment priorities (so called Territorial Contract) signed between Central goverment and Voivodship authorities for years 2014-2023 (that is depending on free financial resources and readiness for construction as well)
Anyway the next stage is as usual contruction design and getting ZRID (permissions for execution of the road investment) after that.

http://www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl/wi...ing-52527.html
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 04:21 PM   #15197
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Lublin West Bypass (S19) :

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Old January 23rd, 2016, 02:50 PM   #15198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seszele View Post

3 exits: (1) DW 794, (2) – z DK7 in Węgrzce, (3) – Batowice; 2x3, 3,5 m.
total tunnel length: 2,71 km (1,91 and 0,8km)

Traffic intenisty estimateded: 40-50K
Are there four tunnels or 2 only? According to the plan I saw 4...
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Old January 23rd, 2016, 03:13 PM   #15199
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Btw, the cost of construction is predicted at 1,8 bln zl(ca. 410€ mln, about 35,75€ mln/km). Relatively expensive, as the same Warsaw bypass will be constructed at 31.7€ mln, even though it has a long tunnel. Also, do the following names of the companies have good reputation in Europe(those are the constructors of the bypass): Astaldi S.p.A(western part with the tunnel), Gulermak Agir Sanayi Inssat ve Taahhut A.S.(central), and Warbud S.A.(eastern)?
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Old January 23rd, 2016, 06:54 PM   #15200
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I guess the two minor ones were not included in the stats
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