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Old March 5th, 2016, 06:57 PM   #15321
John Maynard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
False.
I am sure you will demonstrate us, how Poland is not in the EU leading countries in road fatalities.

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Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
You seriously claim Poland had access to any significant (in the context of infrastructure investments) EU funds in 1998, a decade before we started serious construction on our road network? Is that a joke, or are you seriously this misinformed? First significant EU funding came to Poland in 2004-2006 perspective. Those funds were nowhere near what we got in 2007-2013.
Truth is that Poland could and should have built, or at least started their motorway network much earlier - they had the money for it.
By doing so, tens of thousands of lives would have been saved, and hundreds of thousands injuries, including paralysis for life, would have been avoided.
But of course, road deaths as well as road pirates and criminals weren't an issue at all for the government/legislators until recently (with a lot of pressure from Western Europe) and even...
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #15322
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per million inhabitants (I don't like the measure but anyway)
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-4656_en.htm

Poland: 84
Latvia: 106
Lithuania: 90
Romania: 91
Bulgaria: 90

is just not true...

of course, Germany is listed at 42. But what does Germany have, lots of roads without speed limits!
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:17 PM   #15323
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The 2015 rate would now be closer to 73 fatalities per 1 million people. Which is similar to Belgium in 2012. Now, Belgium is the unsafest country in western Europe, but it's moving in the right direction at a relatively fast pace. As recent as 2008 the fatality rate per 1 million was nearly twice that of 2015.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:18 PM   #15324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Still, Poland is on the TOP of EU road fatalities rates .
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
I am sure you will demonstrate us, how Poland is not in the EU leading countries in road fatalities.
So, the top country or one of the leading ones???
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:28 PM   #15325
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So, the top country or one of the leading ones???
And what? it's ONE of the TOP of EU road fatalities rates anyway - and it's on the TOP of the largest countries in EU - all others are much smaller.
Precisely, 5th "best" country out of 28 .
Nothing to be proud of - well, except if you're a road "pirate" .
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:31 PM   #15326
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Truth is that Poland could and should have built, or at least started their motorway network much earlier - they had the money for it.
When exactly Anyway the truth is EU is at least partially to blame since until recently we had much less cars on our roads, so our infrastructure was somehow less inadequate. Now almost anybody can buy some used crap from WE resulting both in more accidents and injuries/deaths
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:44 PM   #15327
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was better with a rusty Syrena as opposed to rusty Polo?
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Old March 5th, 2016, 09:44 PM   #15328
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Originally Posted by Iluminat View Post
When exactly Anyway the truth is EU is at least partially to blame since until recently we had much less cars on our roads, so our infrastructure was somehow less inadequate. Now almost anybody can buy some used crap from WE resulting both in more accidents and injuries/deaths
and pollution. it should be illegal to sell cars in EU that do not meet emission standards.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 10:02 PM   #15329
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The 2015 rate would now be closer to 73 fatalities per 1 million people. Which is similar to Belgium in 2012. Now, Belgium is the unsafest country in western Europe, but it's moving in the right direction at a relatively fast pace. As recent as 2008 the fatality rate per 1 million was nearly twice that of 2015.
But, it's Belgian beer that is to blame . If it wasn't so strong and so goddamn good - nothing in Poland is comparable, even vodka - there won't be so many drunk drivers and less accidents .
Recently, more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer: and drive .
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Old March 6th, 2016, 01:24 PM   #15330
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Recently, more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer: and drive .
During the last "weekend without alcohol" on 18th of January 34.849 drivers were tested. 1,46% of drivers were above 0,8 and 0,82% were between 0,5 and 0,8.

Hard facts please.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 02:14 PM   #15331
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
And what?
I was just asking which of your statements was true as you have strange ability of bending facts to fit your statements.

The same with your bollocks about "more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer".

Which is simply not true, as another poster already mentioned:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NejcB View Post
During the last "weekend without alcohol" on 18th of January 34.849 drivers were tested. 1,46% of drivers were above 0,8 and 0,82% were between 0,5 and 0,8.

Hard facts please.
So, Poland is not TOP EU country regarding road fatalities and no, no "more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer".

Just to make some things clear
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Old March 6th, 2016, 10:50 PM   #15332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I was just asking which of your statements was true as you have strange ability of bending facts to fit your statements.

The same with your bollocks about "more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer".

Which is simply not true, as another poster already mentioned:
Actually, you can blame JanVL for giving false statements:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanVL View Post
- Flanders: 23.801 checked - 6% drunken
- Wallonia: 9.898 checked - 16.3% drunken
- Brussels: 4.957 checked - 59% drunken

http://www.carguide.be/guide-auto-au...an-vlaanderen/
I double checked, and translated the original statement from Dutch, an it was saying: 5% were checked positive - Now, I will have to always check again every information coming from JanVL .

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
So, Poland is not TOP EU country regarding road fatalities and no, no "more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer".

Just to make some things clear
No way dude! Poland is on the EU leading part in road fatalities and Poland is one of the TOP countries where roads are the deadliest and most dangerous in whole EU .

But you know what, you can always pretend to be deaf and blind, claim that this is wrong, for cons, it will no way change the reality .
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Old March 6th, 2016, 11:37 PM   #15333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Actually, you can blame JanVL for giving false statements:

I double checked, and translated the original statement from Dutch, an it was saying: 5% were checked positive - Now, I will have to always check again every information coming from JanVL .


No way dude! Poland is on the leading part in road fatalities and Poland is one of the TOP countries where roads are the deadliest and most dangerous in whole EU .

But you know what, you can always pretend to be deaf and blind, claim that this is wrong, for cons, it will no way change the reality .
The fact is, however, Poland is safer from a traffic-safety standpoint than the US ... and getting safer every day.

Not that that's much of an accomplishment.

So stop complaining.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 11:45 PM   #15334
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Little mistake indeed, my bad
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Old March 7th, 2016, 01:37 AM   #15335
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Now almost anybody can buy some used crap from WE resulting both in more accidents and injuries/deaths
If they are crap (unsafe) that is simply because Poland has a crap car testing system. A proper car testing system would have the rubbish off the roads.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 03:25 AM   #15336
John Maynard
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
The fact is, however, Poland is safer from a traffic-safety standpoint than the US ... and getting safer every day.

Not that that's much of an accomplishment.

So stop complaining.
But, you know what: it is much harder in EU to obtain a driver's license than it is in the USA - I guess you could get a license in a day in many States, unimaginable in almost if not all EU states, where you have to have a compulsory minimum of a few dozens of hours of theoretical/practical/road safety courses before even applying for a test exam; plus in some countries, a few dozen of hours afterwards to get a full driver's license, and a probation period of a few years. Therefore, one should compare apples to apples.

Also, but don't take it as a statement: young Americans can get a car driver's license already at 16 years old in most States (even 14 y.o. for a limited license in some States) and have access to much powerful cars than their average young counterparts in Europe - famous inexpensive "muscle cars" among others, but generally too. So the problem may be there as well .
In Poland, on the other side, many youngsters do have "crappy" cars - often the first or second in the family - sometime with cheap motor power modification, and some of them drive them like complete nuts, totally irrespectfully of law and without any consideration for others .

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Little mistake indeed, my bad
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Old March 7th, 2016, 08:50 AM   #15337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
No way dude! Poland is on the EU leading part in road fatalities and Poland is one of the TOP countries where roads are the deadliest and most dangerous in whole EU .

But you know what, you can always pretend to be deaf and blind, claim that this is wrong, for cons, it will no way change the reality .
I'm not saying that Poland has one of the safest roads in Europe. I agree that we have still quite a way to go. Personally I feel much safer driving in the UK or Ireland than I do in Poland and when I am a pedestrian (which means most of the time) I think the distance is even greater.
But, it doesn't change the fact that things are improving and Poland is heading in the right direction. Give it a bit of credit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
But, you know what: it is much harder in EU to obtain a driver's license than it is in the USA - I guess you could get a license in a day in many States, unimaginable in almost if not all EU states, where you have to have a compulsory minimum of a few dozens of hours of theoretical/practical/road safety courses before even applying for a test exam; plus in some countries, a few dozen of hours afterwards to get a full driver's license, and a probation period of a few years. Therefore, one should compare apples to apples.

Also, but don't take it as a statement: young Americans can get a car driver's license already at 16 years old in most States (even 14 y.o. for a limited license in some States) and have access to much powerful cars than their average young counterparts in Europe - famous inexpensive "muscle cars" among others, but generally too. So the problem may be there as well .
USA is a strange case. On paper their statistics are worse than in many European countries but when I drive there I don't feel that much difference. Lane discipline is a bit of an issue but otherwise it feels that people drive slower than in Europe (with the exception of the greater LA ) and I didn't notice any particularly dangerous habits. Maybe I missed something?

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In Poland, on the other side, many youngsters do have "crappy" cars - often the first or second in the family - sometime with cheap motor power modification, and some of them drive them like complete nuts, totally irrespectfully of law and without any consideration for others .

Every country has its share of youngsters who think they are immortal.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 09:08 AM   #15338
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If they are crap (unsafe) that is simply because Poland has a crap car testing system. A proper car testing system would have the rubbish off the roads.
Not youngsters only
40% of RJA or RP or RLU or RPR or RPZ cars is such trash made in 1980s-1990s bought by Ukrainians for grosze(comparing with Ukraine). I also saw a rusty Zhyguli from Krakow. And there are still lots of that small **** like Polonaise riding on the roads. Unfortunately it is not precisely controlled

Last edited by ukraroad; March 7th, 2016 at 09:15 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 07:58 PM   #15339
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
But, you know what: it is much harder in EU to obtain a driver's license than it is in the USA - I guess you could get a license in a day in many States, unimaginable in almost if not all EU states, where you have to have a compulsory minimum of a few dozens of hours of theoretical/practical/road safety courses before even applying for a test exam; plus in some countries, a few dozen of hours afterwards to get a full driver's license, and a probation period of a few years. Therefore, one should compare apples to apples.

Also, but don't take it as a statement: young Americans can get a car driver's license already at 16 years old in most States (even 14 y.o. for a limited license in some States) and have access to much powerful cars than their average young counterparts in Europe - famous inexpensive "muscle cars" among others, but generally too. So the problem may be there as well .
In Poland, on the other side, many youngsters do have "crappy" cars - often the first or second in the family - sometime with cheap motor power modification, and some of them drive them like complete nuts, totally irrespectfully of law and without any consideration for others .

Do you have a study for that statement? How can you judge without formal support? Do all young drivers drive nuts?
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Old March 7th, 2016, 10:57 PM   #15340
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Do you have a study for that statement? How can you judge without formal support? Do all young drivers drive nuts?
No, not at all . The fact that drivers under 25 pay 150% to 250% more for insurance is just injustice, right?

No, it's statistics.
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