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Old September 12th, 2017, 09:00 PM   #16521
OulaL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantiscum View Post
What about this interchange?
https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.33324...7i13312!8i6656

Will it be rebuilt to motorway standards?
Is that a motorway?

What a disappointment. Most if not all Polish expressways I've ever driven are better than this and still not signposted as motorways.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 09:57 PM   #16522
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This route was built before the WW II, so it`s narrower than the newest motorways
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Old September 12th, 2017, 10:01 PM   #16523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Is that a motorway?

What a disappointment. Most if not all Polish expressways I've ever driven are better than this and still not signposted as motorways.
This and A4/A18 in Lower Silesia were the only "motorways" on Polish territory after the last war. They were first signposted with the sign some time in the seventies (I'm not sure). Anyway, it was before the modern motorway standards were adopted and before "droga ekspresowa" was invented. The standards have changed since then, but these roads remained "motorways".
A4 west of Wrocław doesn't even have a hard shoulder which disqualifies it as a "motorway", in fact it has lower standard than nearby "expressway" S8

There are also some substandard "expressway" sections built in the communist times, most notably S6 in Tricity.

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Originally Posted by Dantiscum View Post
Probably, but I haven't heard of any official plans.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 11:26 PM   #16524
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According to the Polish forum the second carriageway of the S3 Gorzów Wlkp bypass will fully open to traffic in the first week of October
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Old September 14th, 2017, 01:12 AM   #16525
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Half year behind schedule... typical Dragados.
Still better than Salini. They are the new Alpine Bau or Polimex in terms of delays
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Old September 14th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #16526
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Half year behind schedule... typical Dragados.
Still better than Salini. They are the new Alpine Bau or Polimex in terms of delays

Better late than never
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Old September 16th, 2017, 01:36 AM   #16527
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TB
2004/2005:
Renovated south lane between Exit "Wadroze Wielkie" and Exit "Bielany Wroclawskie"
Published by BBKS-PROJEKT Sp. z o.o.

Exit "Kostomloty":


Exit "Bielany Wroclawskie":


Exit "Jarostow", nowadays known as "Udanin":
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Old September 16th, 2017, 04:08 PM   #16528
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S7 Krakow Eastern Bypass

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Old September 18th, 2017, 03:28 PM   #16529
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Hi, am I correct in thinking that the latest under construction network between Warsaw and Lublin will be of concrete structure? If so, why not asphalt?

Also, does anyone know when the S2 Warsaw ringroad will start being under construction mode? They better start soon if they want it complete by the summer of 2020.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 03:36 PM   #16530
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The S2 is under construction
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Old September 18th, 2017, 08:51 PM   #16531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.cool View Post
Also, does anyone know when the S2 Warsaw ringroad will start being under construction mode?
No, we can only estimate the dates.
Section A may be started in ~December
Half of section B is already under construction, the other half should start in October or November.
Section C may be started soon.

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Construction of S7 and S5 (also called DK16) around Ostróda. This section includes some large brigdes, one of them is visually similar to the infamous MA532 in Mszana.

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Old September 24th, 2017, 04:23 PM   #16532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.cool View Post
Hi, am I correct in thinking that the latest under construction network between Warsaw and Lublin will be of concrete structure? If so, why not asphalt?
If I remember correctly from the Polish S8 thread, it was mentioned that the previous government favored concrete surfaces due to their relative longevity and initial low maintenance costs compared to asphalt roads. Additionally, there was some mention of improved fuel consumption, etc. There's plenty of disadvantages as well, plenty information that's easily accessible online. One of the primary disadvantages was that resurfacing the concrete road was more expensive than a typical asphalt road, and less eco-friendly. On the other hand, I think that the logic was that when time came to resurface these concrete roads, the roadways would need to be expanded in about 20 to 30 years from 2 to 3 or even 4 lanes. In such a situation, repaving costs are the least of anyone's concern.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 05:20 PM   #16533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumcajs16 View Post
resurfacing the concrete road was more expensive
Have you ever seen a "resurfaced" concrete road? I am asking seriously. Let me say in advance, forget the USA, they don't build to last, but to the next elections.


There were some cases in 60's or 70's where the concrete deteriorated, but Germans quickly found that it was caused by the acidity of a specific type of stone that appeared in some sources of sand. There are tar/asphalt patches on some older concrete autobahns, but that's it.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 05:55 PM   #16534
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S7 motorway Jędrzejów - Moczydło was opened yesterday:

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Originally Posted by ace_combat View Post
Dzisiejszy przejazd nowo otwartą S7 od Jędrzejowa do granicy województw.

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Old September 25th, 2017, 01:06 AM   #16535
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Have you ever seen a "resurfaced" concrete road? I am asking seriously. Let me say in advance, forget the USA, they don't build to last, but to the next elections.
Just drive to Wroclaw from Berlin, you'll see it
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Old September 25th, 2017, 03:05 AM   #16536
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From Berlin to Wrocław, if at all. But it's not resurfaced, it's just not touched from the moment of being built in 1930s (except from pouring some asphalt onto some bigger dilatation gaps that got really dangerous). From Wrocław to Berlin it's just built again from scratch. --> not even again, Germans built only one carriageway and the other one was added mostly in mid-2000s, except for short sections built in 1990s.

And... https://goo.gl/maps/fi6RuL4DDju -> how can they charge fees (even from trucks and buses only) on a road in such a condition?

Last edited by Kpc21; September 25th, 2017 at 03:16 AM.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 02:03 PM   #16537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Have you ever seen a "resurfaced" concrete road? I am asking seriously. Let me say in advance, forget the USA, they don't build to last, but to the next elections.
Wrocław - Legnica was resurfaced from to concrete, the same applies to D1 in Czechia.

Initial state:


And laying new surface:


I do admit that concrete surfaces have long service life but they aren't indestructible or forever. There are many examples of concrete road covered with asphalt to achieve drivable surface or concrete road being replaced by regular asphalt structure during modernisation. Of course this is 60+ years after proper concrete was done due to that concrete is used mostly in places where road is envisaged to stay for at least half century but interestingly it also found its way to bus stops and spaces for trucks which are simply destroying in extremely quick manner asphalt pavement.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 04:34 PM   #16538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Have you ever seen a "resurfaced" concrete road? I am asking seriously. Let me say in advance, forget the USA, they don't build to last, but to the next elections.
By "resurfacing a concrete road" - or "renovating", or "revitalizing", etc - I meant completely tearing the physical concrete structure of the roadway down to the foundation and re-laying the concrete roadway. Being that this is a road infrastructure thread in a road infrastructure forum, I believed everyone was on the same page regarding semantics. I see that our German friends require stricter adherence to proper terminology

From personal experience, I know there has been a recent revival in concrete road infrastructure in the United States and that there are plenty of concrete roads from the Eisenhower Interstate system that still remain with their original/patched up road surfaces, but that is a topic for the American threads.

As for @mr.cool 's question, yes, the S17 sections between Warsaw and Lublin currently in construction will be concrete.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #16539
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Some countries moved away from concrete, mostly from an availability of capacity standpoint. Asphalt can be replaced quicker.

I think concrete should not be used if;
* one carriageway is not wide enough for a 4+0 system with a reasonable speed limit and traffic flow (no 60 km/h 'versetzt fahren').
* the forecasted traffic volume is too high for a 2+0 or 3+0 system

One thing you don't want is the country being riddled with long-term construction zones and associated traffic jams / crashes due to concrete replacement.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 05:25 PM   #16540
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In Poland, just before a moment, most highways were 1x2 ordinary (although wide) roads, often through villages and centers of towns. Many still are. If this worked, than making a section of a proper motorway/expressway 1x2 for, say, a month will not be a disaster.

By the way, when you have 2x2 concrete road, how can you extend it to 2x3? We have such a situation on the eastern Łódź bypass. It's concrete and it needs such an extension.

A2 Łódź - Warsaw needs it even more, but there, there is asphalt, so it will not be so difficult.
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