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Old November 26th, 2017, 10:03 AM   #16741
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRC_100 View Post
there is no such thing like a european or world motorway standard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
Maybe there is no European or world standard (or norm) for a motorway
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/t...n/crt1968e.pdf

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Chapter 1, article 1

(j) "Motorway" means a road specially designed and built for motor traffic, which does not serve properties bordering on it, and which:
  • (i) Is provided, except at special points or temporarily, with separate carriageways for the two directions of traffic, separated from each other either by a dividing strip not intended for traffic or, exceptionally, by other means;
  • (ii) Does not cross at level with any road, railway or tramway track, or footpath; and
  • (iii) Is specially signposted as a motorway
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Old November 26th, 2017, 01:23 PM   #16742
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Polish expressways can theoretically cross at level with other roads in exceptional cases.

You have one example here: https://goo.gl/maps/hdSG24n8nKU2 - even with a zebra crossing.

Still, simply specifically this road, in this place, shouldn't be marked as a motorway. It can remain a "road for motor vehicles", according to the original meaning of the current "expressway" sign, I would resurrect.
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Old November 26th, 2017, 10:21 PM   #16743
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It is not very important document, which nobody respects.
In addition, the definitions contained therein do not prejudge anything.
If we compare dutch motorways standard to polish one, the polish motorways shouldn`t be sign as motorways.
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Old November 26th, 2017, 11:06 PM   #16744
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The definition in there has meaning only there and nowhere else.

Although I have just seen an analysis where someone tried to apply the definition of "changing direction of motion" from the convention to some regulation from our highway code, regarding the cyclists' rights. Arguing that a ratified convention is a legal act of a higher rank than a standard parliamentary legal act /yes, it is, but it mostly doesn't contain regulations that would apply directly to the drivers, but rather to the legislators, telling how the local law should look like - so as a result, the local law is what actually holds/.

This was, of course, bull...t. Applying a definition from one totally different legal act, written originally in a different language (and only translated to Polish), to the Polish highway code, makes no sense.

Let's let someone Dutch tell us something about the motorway standards in the Netherlands, then we can compare them with our ones.
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Old November 26th, 2017, 11:24 PM   #16745
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A motorway in the Netherlands is a legal term, applying motorway status to a road designed according to the ROA - Richtlijnen Ontwerp Autosnelwegen (guidelines motorway design).

As far as I know it is mostly about geometric design and not things like a minimum distance between exits, though there are design standards for the minimum length of an auxiliary lane between slip ramps.

For example S2 in Warsaw would've been a motorway in the Netherlands (like A10 in Amsterdam, which has a considerably higher exit density than S2).
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Old November 28th, 2017, 12:24 PM   #16746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
... S2 in Warsaw would've been a motorway in the Netherlands ...
The S2 is not a motorway in Poland for the same reasons, i.e. because it does not conform to design guidelines (exit density, lane width, hard shoulder width). But I am curious, which specific aspects of design prevent the S2 from being a motorway in the Netherlands?

Also, do you follow the V-model of design, described in the ROA, strictly or pragmatically, that is, as the situation/cost targets/ecology demand?




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Old November 28th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #16747
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He writes that it would be a motorway in Netherlands.

Anyway, the S2 in Warsaw is not a motorway mainly for political reasons.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #16748
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I misread and misquoted, I apologise (and I must remind myself not to multitask any more, as clearly I don't have enough oestrogen).

Let me re-phrase the question: what would it take in the Netherlands, in terms of design, to downgrade a road such as the S2 in Warsaw to a non-motorway status? If you fail to meet one aspect of ROA guidelines, is this enough to downgrade a road or is it more complicated than that?


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Anyway, the S2 in Warsaw is not a motorway mainly for political reasons.
I guess you refer to the political decision not to charge a toll fee on the S2? I am sure we could have found many a legal instrument to circumvent this requirement like we did in other parts of the country.

To be honest, the S2 is a fine and well-engineered road and it hurts a little that we chose to call it anything but a motorway. I'll leave the discussion there because I know this topic can become heated and get out of hand very quickly.


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Old November 28th, 2017, 02:58 PM   #16749
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I have no idea how much truth is in it, but when I asked in the Polish SSC sections, some users pointed out it was because of some NIMBY-type protests where people didn't want a motorway.

So, it was decided it will be an expressway and everyone is happy.

It makes no sense, but you know, expressway sounds different from motorway.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 03:00 PM   #16750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
Let me re-phrase the question: what would it take in the Netherlands, in terms of design, to downgrade a road such as the S2 in Warsaw to a non-motorway status? If you fail to meet one aspect of ROA guidelines, is this enough to downgrade a road or is it more complicated than that?
One example:
https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.44020...7i13312!8i6656

This used to be a highway A208. A few years ago it was renamed to N208 and the speed limit was set to 70 km/h. I guess it was because it didn't fulfill all requirements and because of proximity to houses (noise).
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Old November 28th, 2017, 03:15 PM   #16751
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Not many motorways in the Netherlands have been downgraded. A270 was shortened because they added traffic lights and A261 was absorbed into the N261 expressway project, so they had a uniform road configuration. The southern portion of A325 was reconstructed to an urban arterial with traffic lights. These are all former motorways with a length of only a few kilometers.

A good example is A2/N2 around Eindhoven. A2 forms the express lanes, built with motorway standards, while N2 forms the collector lanes, built with expressway standard. You can clearly see the difference in horizontal and vertical alignment, in addition to the lower speed limit, lack of shoulders and slightly narrower lanes.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #16752
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This article is from the Polish road forum


http://gazetaolsztynska.pl/480223,Ob...#axzz4ziDJZrJA


I have translated and summarised key points for non-Polish speakers:


*11km of new S7 (Rychnowo-Olsztynek) will open to drivers next week

*We will have to wait a bit longer for completion and opening of S7 Ostróda bypass

*S51 (Olsztynek-Olsztyn) may open end of December. However, this depends on weather and the pace of the new contractor so is not guaranteed. The new contractor is doing all they can to get road open by end of December

*The entire S7 from Napierki to Płońsk may be completed by mid 2021
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Old November 28th, 2017, 08:38 PM   #16753
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S8 (Ostrow Mazowiecka (MA) - voivodeship border (PD) )

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Old December 1st, 2017, 06:11 PM   #16754
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S5 Expressway contruction near Wrocław. It`s said to be open before X-mas.

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Foty z lotnicze za XI z zad. III
WS-28 - montowano bariery energochłonne na dojazdach do wiaduktu

WD-29 - wykonywano drobne naprawy powierzchni betonowych przed hydrofobizacją

WS-30 - wykonywano umocnienia skarp, montowano bariery i balustrady

WS-31 - w oddali widoczna Trzebnica

WS-31 na węźle Trzebnica - wykonano nawierzchnię SMA na nitce prawej trasy głównej, montowano bariery i balustrady na obiekcie

WS-32 - widok na nitkę prawą obiektu, montowano bariery i balustrady na obiekcie

jw/ nitka lewa

WS-33 - widok na nitkę lewą - umacnianie skarpy, montowano bariery energochłonne

j/w nitka prawa

WD-35 - wykonywano drobne naprawy powierzchni betonowych przed hydrofobizacją

MS-36 - wykonano SMA i przeciwspadki, montowano ekrany oraz bariery energochłonne

MS-36 - w oddali widoczna istniejąca droga krajowa nr 5

MS-36 - widok na podporę P-6 (od strony Wrocławia) - wykonywano umocnienia stożków nasypowych

WD-37 - wykonano izolacjonawierzchnię na kapach chodnikowych

Węzeł Kryniczno - wiadukt WD-38 - montowano balustrady na gzymsach skrzydeł

WS-39 - wykonywano bariery energochłonne na dojazdach do obiektu

WS-40 - montowano bariey energochłonne na dojazdach do obiektu, wykonano hydrofobizację powierzchni betonowych

MS-41 - widok od strony Poznania - montowano pochylnie wewnątrz dźwigarów skrzynkowych

MS-41 - widok w stronę Poznania - montowano ekrany przeciwolśnieniowe oraz bariery energochłonne

Widok znad węzła Widawa na drogę ekspresową S-5, za AOW widoczny most MS-41 o długości całkowitej 750 m

Węzeł Widawa - na pierwszym planie wiadukt WD-45 w ciągu łączni W-2 - wykonywano bariery energochłonne na dojazdach do obiektu

Węzeł Widawa - nad rondem Obrońców Grodna wiadukt WD-43 - na zjeździe z obiektu wzdłuż ścian oporowych M-3 i M4 trwa demontaż barier betonowych i montaż barier docelowych stalowych
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Old December 1st, 2017, 08:50 PM   #16755
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Opening of S5 Kroscina to Wroclaw before Christmas is not guaranteed because of a bad winter. Same can be said for S8 Marki-Radzymin (Salini have been threatened with legal action if they break their contract) and S8 (Podlaskie/Mazovian border to Jezewo)

We just have to wait and see what happens

Last edited by Chris80678; December 2nd, 2017 at 12:07 AM.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 05:09 AM   #16756
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doesn't Salini have more than one delayed contract? That wouldn't help them in court.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 11:44 AM   #16757
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doesn't Salini have more than one delayed contract? That wouldn't help them in court.
They also have contracts for A1 (Czestochowa bypass), S3 Nowa Sol-Legnica and S7 Checiny-Jedrzejow (all under construction)
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 01:21 PM   #16758
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They also have contracts for A1 (Czestochowa bypass), S3 Nowa Sol-Legnica and S7 Checiny-Jedrzejow (all under construction)
That's debatable Especially on S3 Polkowice - Lubin. Nothing is going on at the construction site. Deadline is in June 2018. It will certainly be delayed.
S7 is already delayed by one month. But it is still far from being completed. Autumn 2018 maybe?
A1 has deadline on April 2019, so there is still a lot of time. But the pace of work on this section is rather slow.

They also have a contract for one section of S7 "Zakopianka". Deadline is in July 2018. It will be delayed, too.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 02:32 PM   #16759
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That's debatable Especially on S3 Polkowice - Lubin. Nothing is going on at the construction site. Deadline is in June 2018. It will certainly be delayed.
S7 is already delayed by one month. But it is still far from being completed. Autumn 2018 maybe?
A1 has deadline on April 2019, so there is still a lot of time. But the pace of work on this section is rather slow.

They also have a contract for one section of S7 "Zakopianka". Deadline is in July 2018. It will be delayed, too.
Not looking good for Salini. Doubt they will get more contracts in Poland
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 06:30 AM   #16760
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does GDDKiA has any kind of black list of contractors? I'd welcome Salini there
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