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Old December 24th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #1881
Matz32Z
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A2 Bypass Strykow

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Old December 24th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #1882
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Swiecko, another of those famous outhouses near the border
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Old December 24th, 2008, 10:24 PM   #1883
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Couldn't agree with you more about signing Swiecko on the A2 signs, its like Poland has an aversion to mentioning places outside of the western and eastern borders like Berlin (where the A2 heads to in the west) and Minsk
(where the A2 heads to in the west). Even in Warsaw you see no signs forthese two places only for Poznan (understandable), Swiecko and Terespol (two tiny villages nobody outside of Poland will have heard of)
I suppose that once all of Poland's motorways are finished and provided there is money left in the pot to pay for signage changes Swiecko should be replaced with Berlin and Kukuryki should be replaced with Minsk,
Jedryozhowice should be replaced with Dresden and Korczowa should be replaced with Kiev
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Old December 24th, 2008, 10:27 PM   #1884
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Originally Posted by Mateusz View Post
Great, great news

3 new biddings are announced for A4 between Szarów and Rzeszów

A pure motorway boom !

They should finish it before Euro
That is great news Any news about when we can expect the currently
under construction part of the A4 between Kraków and Szarów to be finished?
On Wikipedia it says some time before May 2009. It would be great if the
continuation of the motorway to Rzeszów could start slightly earlier than the
opening of the Kraków to Szarów part as it would be great if the A4
was done up to at least Rzeszów by 2012
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Old December 24th, 2008, 10:29 PM   #1885
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Probably L'viv is better, Kiev is still quite far away. And let's not forget Budzisko (signed all the way from Klodzko, and Terespol (which is about the same as Kukuryki anyway)
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Old December 24th, 2008, 10:30 PM   #1886
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Terespol can be changed to Brest. Closer to the border, I would sign Minsk (but not necessarily all the way from Warszawa).
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Old December 24th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #1887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris80678 View Post
Couldn't agree with you more about signing Swiecko on the A2 signs, its like Poland has an aversion to mentioning places outside of the western and eastern borders like Berlin (where the A2 heads to in the west) and Minsk
(where the A2 heads to in the west). Even in Warsaw you see no signs forthese two places only for Poznan (understandable), Swiecko and Terespol (two tiny villages nobody outside of Poland will have heard of)
I suppose that once all of Poland's motorways are finished and provided there is money left in the pot to pay for signage changes Swiecko should be replaced with Berlin and Kukuryki should be replaced with Minsk,
Jedryozhowice should be replaced with Dresden and Korczowa should be replaced with Kiev
What a dumb idea. In Warsaw there should be signs for Berlin and Minsk?? What a stupid politically-correct bunch of nonsense. If I'm in the middle of Poland I don't want a sign for bloody Berlin 400km+ away. If you don't know where the major european cities are, buy a map. Those "tiny villages" are the border crossings, I think it's important to put the name of those, and not some town 200 km away.

I suppose your next complaint will be that the road signs in Poland are in Polish???

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Terespol can be changed to Brest. Closer to the border, I would sign Minsk (but not necessarily all the way from Warszawa).
Terespol could be changed to Brześć, and the same with Mińsk, if they were in Poland.
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Old December 24th, 2008, 11:17 PM   #1888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoPolak View Post
What a dumb idea. In Warsaw there should be signs for Berlin and Minsk?? What a stupid politically-correct bunch of nonsense. If I'm in the middle of Poland I don't want a sign for bloody Berlin 400km+ away. If you don't know where the major european cities are, buy a map. Those "tiny villages" are the border crossings, I think it's important to put the name of those, and not some town 200 km away.

I suppose your next complaint will be that the road signs in Poland are in Polish???
If they want to sign some border town nobody has every heard of 600 kilometers away it's okay, but when it comes to sign a city of millions that is a bit further away it's not okay? What a nonsense. In this day and age of borderless Europe, those border villages lost their importance, and it's thus not necessary to sign them anymore.

Remember this:
Signage is meant for the people that don't know the area, not for the Pole that drives a certain road everyday.

That way, you need to make signage which is clear to all, despite the language they speak, which brings me to my next point:


Quote:
Terespol could be changed to Brześć, and the same with Mińsk, if they were in Poland.
How many foreigners do you think will understand Brześć means Brest? Sometimes translations are not similar at all. Tip: drive through Belgium and you'll know what I mean.
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Old December 24th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #1889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Remember this:
Signage is meant for the people that don't know the area, not for the Pole that drives a certain road everyday.

How many foreigners do you think will understand Brześć means Brest? Sometimes translations are not similar at all. Tip: drive through Belgium and you'll know what I mean.
Polish road signs are for Poles. Most people on Polish roads are Poles. I think it's normal that if you visit a country, you try to learn the language there, and not expect signs everywhere in English. Furthermore, Poland is not a multicultural quilt like Belgium, so the analogy doesn't make sense (it's also quite a bit bigger).

PS. Brześć, Wilno, and Lwów, just to give three examples, were Polish cities where there are still sizable Polish minorities. These are the names they are known by in Poland, by Poles. Why should they be signed in any other language but Polish? This is completely stupid to suggest.
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Old December 24th, 2008, 11:46 PM   #1890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoPolak View Post
Polish road signs are for Poles. Most people on Polish roads are Poles. I think it's normal that if you visit a country, you try to learn the language there, and not expect signs everywhere in English. Furthermore, Poland is not a multicultural quilt like Belgium, so the analogy doesn't make sense (it's also quite a bit bigger).

PS. Brześć, Wilno, and Lwów, just to give three examples, were Polish cities where there are still sizable Polish minorities. These are the names they are known by in Poland, by Poles. Why should they be signed in any other language but Polish? This is completely stupid to suggest.
There are dozens of languages in Europe, you can't expect someone to understand all of them, even not a bit. I understand quite some languages, but it's impossible to understand all of them. You'll find many languages within one day driving from any point in Poland. That's why we invented pictorial signs in Europe.

The comparison with Belgium is not stupid at all, since they only show placenames in their own languages. How many Poles would know Trčves means Trier and Bergen means Mons? That's exactly the same in Poland, only for a different country, but like I said, the increasing internationalization requires clear signs with clear destinations. Thinking the road network only belongs to the people in that certain country is soooo 1960's....
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Old December 25th, 2008, 12:15 AM   #1891
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Well, those roads are important parts of E-routes so it wouldn't be bad if on A4 would be signed Dresden (D) and L'viv (UA). I think Berlin is written on E36. Also on A2, Berlin (D) and Brest (BY) would do the job and eventually Ostrava (CZ)

The thing is, it is not even signed in Polish... but just border villages like Jędrzychowice, Korczowa or Gorzyczki...
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Old December 25th, 2008, 01:38 AM   #1892
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AFAIK the only place where they sign Berlin in Poland is on the A6 near Szczecin.

And: the road network is for everyone. Just drive on the eastern part of the A1 in the Netherlands and you'll see cars and trucks from ten different countries. For them it's probably handy that Osnabrück is signed, and not De Lutte, the border town. And of course, Osnabrück is signed in German (= original name). Otherwise it would say "Osnabrugge".
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Old December 25th, 2008, 01:58 AM   #1893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post

The comparison with Belgium is not stupid at all, since they only show placenames in their own languages. How many Poles would know Trčves means Trier and Bergen means Mons? That's exactly the same in Poland, only for a different country, but like I said, the increasing internationalization requires clear signs with clear destinations. Thinking the road network only belongs to the people in that certain country is soooo 1960's....

Trier = Trewir
Mainz = Moguncja
Aachen = Akwizgran
Munster = Monastyr
Munich = Monachium
Dresden = Drezno
Leipzig = Lipsk

Berlin = Berlin ! (although in Old Western Slavoniic is Brenna I believe).
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Old December 25th, 2008, 03:07 AM   #1894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufonut View Post
Trier = Trewir
Mainz = Moguncja
Aachen = Akwizgran
Munster = Monastyr
Munich = Monachium
Dresden = Drezno
Leipzig = Lipsk

Berlin = Berlin ! (although in Old Western Slavoniic is Brenna I believe).
Then we should sign on our motorways sth like that:

Krakov
Lodž
Katovice
Hlivice
Vratislav
Kladsko
Zhořelec
Bílsko-Bělá

Instead of that you see on CZ roads and motorways signs for:

Kraków (PL)
Łódź (PL)
Katowice (PL)
Gliwice (PL)
Wrocław (PL)
Kłodzko (PL)
Zgorzelec (PL)
Bielsko-Biala (PL)

That's the way it should be. Frankly, German language has its own names for almost all czech cities but have you seen somewhere in Sachsen signs leading to Aussig or Brux? Or Eger? Even young Germans don't know that Eger is Cheb...

And that's the point with it. Every city has its official name and shall be signed so It would be nice to see Ostrava instead of Gorzyczki on A4xA1 Sośnica interchange ...
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Old December 25th, 2008, 03:50 AM   #1895
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Let us make things in our own country the way we like.
Of course it would be useful to put both names - the Polish and the original one in the border regions...
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Old December 25th, 2008, 11:25 AM   #1896
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Yes lets write Брэст or Львів or Калининград!And everybody will understand it especially someone from Western-Europe.
Btw.On german signs there is Stettin not Szczecin.On russian signs there is Эльблонг not Elbląg.
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Old December 25th, 2008, 11:27 AM   #1897
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On the German signs it says:
- Stettin (Szczecin)
- Warschau (Warszawa)
- Breslau (Wroclaw)
- Possen (Poznan)

So the original name is mentioned. It would be good if they did that in Poland as well:
- Drezno (Dresden)
- Kaliningrad (Калининград)

And so on
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Old December 25th, 2008, 12:28 PM   #1898
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The essence of the debate is that the Polish name becomes completely useless once you pass the border. So you need to know the real name anyway to continue in the other country.

For a while now, the Netherlands and Germany are now signing cities by their real names, so Arnheim and Nimwegen are being replaced with Arnhem en Nijmegen, and Keulen en Aken are being replaced with Köln and Aachen.
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Old December 25th, 2008, 01:32 PM   #1899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
Then we should sign on our motorways sth like that:

Krakov
Lodž
Katovice
Hlivice
Vratislav
Kladsko
Zhořelec
Bílsko-Bělá

Instead of that you see on CZ roads and motorways signs for:

Kraków (PL)
Łódź (PL)
Katowice (PL)
Gliwice (PL)
Wrocław (PL)
Kłodzko (PL)
Zgorzelec (PL)
Bielsko-Biala (PL)

That's the way it should be. Frankly, German language has its own names for almost all czech cities but have you seen somewhere in Sachsen signs leading to Aussig or Brux? Or Eger? Even young Germans don't know that Eger is Cheb...

And that's the point with it. Every city has its official name and shall be signed so It would be nice to see Ostrava instead of Gorzyczki on A4xA1 Sośnica interchange ...
I hope they will sign it like that Ostrava (CZ) and they should sign on future S3 like Praha (CZ) or Hradec Kralove (CZ) instead of Lubawka (PL)(CZ)...

I think there should be original names, not polish versions of it because it is not so obvious for everyone, bearing in mind these are important routes which carry international thru traffic too

Ostrawa, Koszyce, Praga, Drezno, Lwów, Żylina or Ołomuniec...

Original names should be on
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Old December 25th, 2008, 01:43 PM   #1900
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It would probably be better to sign the original names, unless it differs too much with the name the language of the country the sign is in. Then it's better to sign both IMO.
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